It’s so f’ing simple. JUST DON’T CONNECT YOUR TV TO YOUR WIFI. Get your streams from a separate device.
Wont be enough. Soon theyre gonna start mesh networking with neighboring devices over bluetooth.
Yeah, that’s what i did, but i had to dig through menus turning shit off because I kept getting pop-ups telling me it needed to connect to the Internet.
not enough, they might be using your neighbours’ tvs as access points. Physically remove the wireless module
Anyone know when this started becoming ominous? I’m sure every TV in the sixties didn’t have a microphone on their remotes; I am sure pretty much each one being released today has.
I have a 4k LG TV from around 2020 and it doesn’t have a microphone.
Are you sure? We have two OLEDs (a CX from 2020 and a C1 from 2021), and both have these remotes with microphones:
It should, mine is 2017 and had options to listen for spoken commands
That seems unusual. I have a HD LG so ancient it has 3D and it has a microphone. It has always been disabled in software which isn’t really disabled at all. A microphone free modern tv is a unicorn.
I have a cheapo Samsung 4K TV from 2019 and it does have one in the mic for sure, not sure about the TV itself. I don’t let the TV connect to the internet though. I did initially because convenience, but now I have an Android TV thingy. Which itself is not perfect, but I don’t live alone, having an HTPC with a mouse and keyboard would be a hassle. Aaaand upon writing this I realized HDMI-CEC is a thing and googled it and Plasma Bigscreen can support it and… shit I need a miniPC now
I bought a Steam Machine for this exact use case, and it’s been pretty sweet. Especially since it can do 4k video decoding. I have it set up to start a Jellyfin server and client when I launch it through steam. Also VacuumTube has been a life saver.
If it works for you, that’s great, for me it sits exactly where it makes zero sense to get. My PC is slightly more powerful so for gaming, it would be inferior. But it’s too expensive just for a HTPC. Something either much more powerful (that could also run local LLMs), or significantly cheaper, would make more sense for me. I’m now eyeing used miniPCs, but I’ll have to see if some of the cheap ones can handle 4k decoding.
Idk dude, sounds like you have unrealistic expectations for a $700 mini gaming box. (Not including RAMmageddon)
tossed mine in the trash when i learned it wanted a bluetooth connection to the tv
What? Because I have to Open my control, I understand almost nothing about technology. Don’t tell me it has a chip that controls ever
10 years ago OP would’ve been labeled a schizo, now we just accept there’s microphones in everything
PRISM leak was 13 years ago if you want to feel old yet, but then that was just a revelation about how prevelant mass surveillance is, it was Vault 7 in 2017 that detailed how built-in microphones in Smart TVs are used for spying, so that part would indeed be less than 10 years ago
i hate living in a cyberpunk dystopia
The least they could do is give us the damn body augmentations already. We got all the shitty parts and none of the cool tech.
They won’t even let me transition, let alone give most people general healthcare. Insurance would never cover augmentations
You can have botox and lip fillers and you’ll be happy about it.
the fun stuff from cyberpunk are getting banned,
It’ll only get worse don’t worry. The next TVs will brick if you physically remove the microphone or wifi.
It looks way cooler in the movies and video games. We were tricked!
Because in the movies and video games we see the main character. For the NPCs it sucks… and that’s us.
Who the hell are you calling NPC!
turns and casually walks face against wall
Must have been the wind…
You know the irony of this is? My ex-fiances father was labeled as schizophrenic. I mean he was by textbook definition. One day, I would take her to visit him, he says that computers are tracking you. Now, I brushed it off at the time, probably a conspiracy theory right? but I did think about it.
L3 was tracking internet data already, at least, in the early 2000’s. A little game of what’s connecting to my computer showed me that, but I didn’t know what it was at the time. Well now I know, g-sec company has been tracking us from routers for over twenty years; same company after the merger that makes EOTECHs. So the puzzle pieces came together.
I kind of wondered if he really was schizophrenic or medicated to be so? As an a example, tramadol made me have auditory hallucinations that I’ve never experience on acid or mushrooms (college lol).
If this guy is still alive, I bet he’d really appreciate you telling him he was right. It can be exhausting trying to get people to see the issues in society and having everyone just constantly write you off as crazy. Since you’re here posting this instead of reddit, you’ve probably had that experience yourself since then.
I’m not sure honestly it’s been over a decade. Yeah, reddit got weird, bots and people paid to down vote popular opinions. It’s like you get a bunch of down votes and nobody has a reply. A lot of it has to do with text being misunderstood. You can write a text and someone will think you mean something else. Also it’s more fun here, it’s like stepping back in time when people actually wrote to each other on a forum. And yeah, anything that touches change or addresses an actual issue, you’re a radical.
I do wonder if it is that as a society at least in these generations… We lost cause we never did a really good effort into teaching media literacy to everyone, many arguments i hear i think it boils down to lack of media literacy.
We made the effort to make almost everyone be able to read but the effort to find miss direction, biases and manipulation not so much
I think that’s a major point.
Critical thinking is demoralized.
I mean I showed court dockets about Tent Peg Rump to people supporting him—still. And it’s been interesting to see the stubbornness to still show support. It’s like you got rearended over the last year and like the dog meme in the fire, this is fine. Some people just don’t want to admit defeat. At least some people are waking up. Also the other thing is, you can’t show your opinion often. It’s like we’ve reached China’s level of censorship without even knowing.
The problem is not that is stubbornness, (maybe on high level it is) but is more like questioning became something of an insult rather than of dialogue. I get it we all want to believe we know what we know so challenging that is an insult
And the thing is that finding truth is really hard compared to making shit up, and it just continues to grow apart with AI powered stuff. It is something i worry a lot for the future and really don’t think i have a proper idea on how it can be solved
Yeah that’s part of it. I’ve seen too many smart and successful people making up excuses. I don’t even know why anymore. Look at your wallet or your books. Winning? Winning what? At least I managed to convince some people to look at the bigger picture.
One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest?
Seemed like it…
I will still argue phones listen to us. Don’t care what you say, it happens. Act accordingly
Remove the microphone from your phone
So you are left with a -micro? A mega?!
Lmao
It’s sad isn’t it?
The walls are listening
FYI most modern TVs have a second microphone actually in the display that’s actually used for the nefarious tracking and listening for assistant wake words to save remote battery life
Or just buy a cheap 3rd party off brand universal remote. Dont have to use the one that comes with the TV
The last TV I had was a 37 inch I sold in 2020. I stopped watching TV in 2003. I have been terminally online since late 2000 and 2001.
I’ve been terminally online for almost as long, but tbh the TV is good for background noise, or to watch something while you work, shitpost or play on your PC, situated so you can see the TV
FYI: Any speaker can and will be used as a microphone.
This is a good reason to use old school passive speakers that need an amp and speaker wire.
We’re really fucked aren’t we.
So just remove my sim card and unplug my firewall? Got it.
Nah, we’re not fucked. It’s just that in the occident, the west, we engineered our society to control those people who cannot think for themselves whilst simultaneously guiding those people waking up to the matrix into the occult, which is a word that just means “hidden,” which is good because the decentralized occidental empire operates as a police state with the New Testament describing a decentralized autonomous organization of secret police at an eighth grade reading level. Things are good. We make them look bad to catch super-bad people, like how that still alive cop, Jeffery Epstein, certainly makes things look bad for that other cop, Donald Trump. Something something sting operation human trafficking, you obviously know how that industry works. If you don’t, I’ll teach you. I’m Epstein’s boss: Qanon.
You would be surprised about the capabilities we had in 1970-80s for spying, with way way less technology than what we have today. At this point I think privacy is just a myth, we can literally use light to listen on people by having it bounce off of their windows and interpreting it back as sound. As a side note, rich people do use windows with a vibrating feature exactly to block this old method. There’s literally very little you can do if you are targeted by the government. (Except leaving the country, if possible)
At this point I think privacy is just a myth.
This is the cop in your head to kill. State surveillance capabilities are limited. While in theory it’s difficult to block targetted surveillance the key is to avoid being targetted by blending in.
James Micken’s model of mosad and not mossad threats apply. If a state turns its gaze on you, you will lose. However passive dragnet methods to try and decide who to turn the eye of Sauron on can be hidden from.
Step by step. Maybe true privacy is a myth, but every step closer is a win so take them.
They can track you using your wifi router now, the shit is crazy
Only if they first learn and train with you in known rooms. This one is much more useful for things like “which room is a moving entity in” like your dog … Rather than letting anything useful out.
Even crazier is that Wi-Fi sensing has been around since around 2008. The wild part is how much more they can do with it now. With AI, they can use Wi-Fi signals to track movement, map out rooms, and even detect body positions in real time. It’s not literally seeing through walls, but it’s getting pretty damn close.
Yeah this is why I’ve long suspected this is the reason Google doesn’t let you shut off Bluetooth or wifi permanently easily anymore. Both resemble by default. And I think WiFi even stays on on android when you have it off to facilitate a feature to detect other networks or something.
Xfinity includes it in their new Wifi router and presents it as a feature:
https://www.xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wifi-motion
You also are not able to run your own hardware, you must use theirs. This is why I canceled Xfinity on the same day they installed it, after discovering this.
What do you mean by their hardware? I have Xfinity (it’s the only option for Internet in my apartment complex) and I have my own modem and router. I’ve never used Xfinity’s equipment.
Fuck everything about that. Literal ISP spyware!
If you’re willing to fortify your network in terms of security, I highly recommend building yourself a WiFi router or just buying a highly customizable one like MikroTik or alternatives as such. I think its easily the best defense for such cases.
Totally agree - if you buy the latest TP link (or whateverm model) rather than build your own, you are handing someone else your credentials. Save that old PC and repurpose it as a router
I’m a network engineer, and I’ve built it 🤣
More info on the light thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone
First to use, as far as I remember, were the Soviets in Cuba, gathering intelligence from US diplomats.
“intelligence from US” good luck with that
You got a genuine nose exhale from me with that.
Thanks!
If you aim a laser on a window it can detect the vibrations of sound hitting it. Pretty much the same as placing your ear up against it, except that a laser can do it from far, far away. You can counter this by installing devices on the windows that actively vibrate them, drowning out the sound.
What’s interesting with this technique is the sideways applications. I’ve heard you can use a chip bag to the same effect. Also, apparently you can actually figure out what someone is typing just from the audio. So with just audio you can eventually figure out their computer passwords.
It’s also possible to see what’s on a monitor’s display through processing the EM emissions called Van Eck phreaking.
There’s an entire spectrum of similar attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)
I’ve heard you can use a chip bag to the same effect.
Anything light/thin enough to resonate at vocal frequencies that can reflect a laser (without altering polarization) will work.
I do remember an experiment, using a chip bag, where university researchers were able to extract audio from a video of a chip bag. I believe they were mapping the intensity of the various specular highlights on the bag and playing the audible frequencies. It was muddied and choppy but intelligible.
Even further, your location and time of recording can be roughly estimated based on audio recordings. It’s called Electrical Network Frequency analysis. I forget the specifics, but it had something to do with the frequency change of the power grid (the hum of which can be picked up in some audio recordings, or inadvertently captured as noise from the audio equipment). They can take the recording, determine how the frequency shifted during the recording (corresponding to grid conditions at the time of recording) and compare them to historical data from various utility monitoring stations looking for matches. wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_network_frequency_analysis
There’s an entire spectrum of similar attacks
I see what you did there.
It’s nice to find someone on the same wavelength :P
Any more info on the “vibrating windows for rich people” actually for sale or being actively used on windows? Or is that theoretical?
It is not theoretical and there are companies doing the custom installation on demand.
There is quite a bit of public info on qwant and other search engines as well: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0003682X20309762
Here is a device you can buy yourself, but this is on the lower end: https://creationnetworks.net/products/cambridge-sound-ds2530-70v-window-door-wall-masker-for-scif-secure-rooms-w-vol-control-retractable-cord-0815-900
Here is what one of the laser microphones look like, and you can actually even find and buy them (although not all countries permit it, but you can still buy them with a little bit of research :) https://pki-electronic.com/products/audio-surveillance-equipment/laser-microphone
Also an example of how its done to track your keystrokes (article paywall bypass included): https://archive.is/20251103180518/https://www.wired.com/story/infrared-laser-microphone-keystroke-surveillance/
Thanks for the very thorough response. Crazy that we’re all alive.
Here’s some dude that made a prototype of it for 30$
Instructions unclear. Burned house down.
Anything that has an electrical property change when vibrating can be a microphone.
Disable your speakers and run your audio out through an amp/speaker-bar that has no internet connection.
You might not be able to stop Jack Bauer from personally tracking you, but the sort of dragnet surveillance most people are worried about can still, for now, be mitigated with effort.
Depends. If we’re talking about malware targeting a TV OS, doing that will not really improve things. Another side note, a soundbar might include a microphone. (Most do)
Overall, it is a viable solution, but I wouldn’t bet on it at all if I were to go for full privacy.
The TVos is the malware.
You’d have to pair this with removing the mics (as shown above) and clipping the speaker leads (or just damaging the diaphragm enough by poking something through the speaker grille).
After that?
Not an audio engy but I image a lot of external amps are built to prevent back-feeding out through the line in.
Worst case use s/pdif, and you’ll know that the only thing going through that wire is good ol’ one-way pcm-digital audio.
Also its not impossible to find a sound bar that doesn’t have smart features yet. Even if it is, they tend to age way better than TV’s.
Personally?
My living room has 480i and 1080i tubes at around 26/27inches each.
My bedroom has a dumb 1080p panel.
If I need something prettier I use my higher-res computer monitor (no baked in OS, just firmware for display settings.)
My tv has precisely 2 cables going in. One for power, one for HDMI from the receiver.
But what about the PS5, or the laptop, or the Xbox if I want to play something? I’ve air gapped the tv but the stuff it’s displaying is connected to the router.
Does it have WiFi? It doesn’t need cables to look for other devices to communicate through.
Yes it does which is turned off, ostensibly, I was more thinking of skynet crawling in through the Cat6 plugged into the PS5
You turned it off from their menu option? You’re a trusting soul aren’t you.
Independent application ftw
While you’re at it, disconnect your “smart TV” from the internet!
This is the far easier approach, but if you live somewhere densely populated (like an apartment building) keep in mind it’s been rumored that smart TVs can make a mesh network to upload data without a connection. Though to my knowledge this has never been definitively shown to be true
What year do you think we’ll see the first repo for a Raspberry Pi spoofer?
Something that can act as a “peer” and intercept and blackhole the traffic.
Has to be proven that it occurs first I suppose. But it would also be a difficult thing to workaround. Like in your example the only thing stopping them is a firmware update that dictates the tv connect to as many other clients as possible and blacklist clients that can’t receive a challenge code or success packet or something
Of course I’m sure if that happened people much smarter than me would spoof all that too, make a spoofer that creates dozens of pseudo devices, break challenges and such, etc. cat and mouse game. Luckily these things are usually super lazily implemented by the ad scum but frustratingly that’s bc dedicating resources to this is not worth it usually (eg many people, a sizable and increasing percentage of users, may simply not connect their tv to the internet but once a raspberry pi or docker container or whatever is involved you’re in strictly nerd territory)
Which means disconnecting it’s WiFi, because some may connect to open hotspots without asking.
ISP routers/modems will often have secondary wifi networks that allow access to subscribers. I can absolutely believe these smart devices connect to them automatically.
Buy your own modem and router, and root the router to install Open Source firmware that gives you control of the internet.
And maybe do some Minecraft stuff with the Flock camera down the street.
…and then don’t live near anyone that doesn’t take the same precautions.
This should be a web site or YT channel. How to remove such bits without bricking the item.
To be fair, OP didn’t claim that the remote wasn’t bricked…
It works! I was fully prepared for it to not work and explain to my wife why we need to order a new one, but no issue at all lmao
Could probably have measured its resistance, then put a plain resistor in its place.
Probably, but the nuclear option is always more fun
With these people (advertisers), the nuclear option is sometimes the only real option.
It’s fine, you’ve essentially replaced it with an infinite resistor. With the low currents that a microphone generate, theres just no signal going into the ADC now so it’s just silent.
So if the remote still works then wouldn’t that mean there is still a microphone? Or have they gone back to line of sight infrared? Or am I just thinking of the really really old remote tech?
The microphone would only be used for voice control. So that would fail, but buttons would still work normally.
…when have remote signals ever used microphones?
Not fully related, but early TV remotes used sound rather than IR. The buttons made a distinctive “click” noise, from a mechanical mechanism. The different clicks were detected in the TV and used as input.
Plus side, no batteries to deal with.
Down side, about as (un)reliable as you would expect.
That’s wild. How did the TVs identify the distinctive sound? That seems like it would be a pretty interesting engineering trick.
I believe it was old school analogue electronics, but I’m speculating there.
I just looked it up, it was ultrasonic signals. The main one was the Zenith Space Command.
It’s a smart remote, they use bluetooth or IR as a fallback. The microphone is only for voice control.
Looking up which part to nuke took an hour, but anything to calm down my paranoid ass haha
“Oh good, he fell for the decoy”
oh no
Could you share your knowledge here? I clicked this thread expecting to find instructions to help us follow your advice.
While it’s not always the case, try to look for a 2x4 silver rectangle with a hole in it like the one on my finger. The casing is to isolate it from the nearby radio waves and the hole to let sound through.
If you want to know
allsome of the ways your audio can be spied on.Benn Jordan on audio spying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEC6PM97IRI
He, surprisingly, did another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5ynZ3lMQJc
Remember ye old life-hack that you can use earbuds as a microphone in a pinch?
Speakers and microphones are conceptually the same technology. If your tv can play sound then in theory it can be used by a malicious hacker or company to records sound.
Only the cone-magnet-coil-wires part is the same. All the electrical parts are different. There’s no way.
As far as i could research it is technically feasible though very impractical and low quality, way easier to sell people voice command features instead.
As i understand it also depends on whether its a “active” speaker or not, has an amplifier behind it.
Tvs usually use a speaker array, a bad actor company could design it in a way that one or two of those can be used to record sound in case the microphone is no longer detected.
An ad collector wouldn’t go that far on purpose, a state intelligence operator who is covertly part of the company might.
Just encase your TV room in lead so it can’t get a signal out. Ezpz.
In seriousness completely eliminating the possibility of surveillance is impossible, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t make it as hard as you’re willing to give up convenience for.
I have never once and never will talk to my remote control. So this one’s a no brainer. Gonna do my father in laws (rented) comcast remote next.
I had an old electronics kit as a kid that you could use the earphone as microphone. Quality was shit but it works.
SPEAKE(a)R: Turn Speakers to Microphones for Fun and Profit
Seems to have some caveats but I’m not an expert.
Edit: fixed link
Oh wow!
Link 404s
Working for me now. Here’s the PDF
Thanks man
I have accidentally done this on my laptop when it thought my microphone was a speaker and played audio out of it.
Minidisc headphones did this. I did it as a project as a young child.
They’re the same.
there is not “no way” when the plcs that read / send to the coils are basically software controlled actuators.
True…so… subtitles it is then.
Reading lyrics it is then.
Been nice knowing you music
probably some mossad-level shit, not for the regular everyday leftist “domestic terrorist” eh ?
I hope not.
I think i can still trust my devices to not be actively listening trough every hole. I can, right?
trust you devices’ holes, my friend
How many holes do you speak out of?
Things will become more obscure and harder to disable. In fact since you own nothing and you’ll be happy, youre damaging government property and the police are already dispatched to take you to a totally cool and totally legal prison slave camp.
Nah they won’t send the cops, you just gotta drink a verification can
Greetings from Sony.
I thought that greentext was so outrageous when it first appeared, and now its probably going to be reality at some point.
Youtube asking you to say the brand name or the jingle to skip the add. You heard it here first
They’ll gamify it. Remember “Karaoke Revolution”? I think “Rock Band” and its derivatives also built upon it.
I’ll go down swinging with my hoarded DDR3 sticks
Remotes aren’t complicated enough to hide the microphone. It’s more likely that tvs ditch the remote entirely and be voice controlled only, mute people be damned.
There’s gonna be an app to control the TV and you need to register with your government ID to use it and it will required internet access at all times.
I’m tempted to try this but I’m not sure how to identify the microphone or whether it would be in my remote or the TV itself. Is there some sort of guide on doing this?
While it’s not always the case, try to look for a 2x4 silver rectangle with a hole in it like the one on my finger. The casing is to isolate it from the nearby radio waves and the hole to let sound through.
That’s actually your finger? Interesting.
