“Natural” or “unnatural” isn’t a thing, unless you believe in ghosts. Same as “humans are meant/built/made to X”, unless you’re one of those delusional cultists who think some deity designed us all.
Whatever we do, it’s “natural” and can most often be found elsewhere in nature. There are ants that farm aphids for fuck’s sake and other animals that do even weirder shit.
“Natural” and “Unnatural” aren’t a thing unless you believe in ghosts
If ghosts were real, they would be a natural part of the universe.
I miss r/natureismetal. It was at times highly educational
You want to show me an ant jerking off an aphid to reproduce them?
They would if they had hands.
OK, so first of all, what they are doing in this picture is checking if the cows are pregnant. I have never seen someone being table to impregnate cows by sticking their arm up their ass.
Second thing you should remember: In nature the bull literally does not fucking care. If a cow is ovulating (bulls and cows are able to detect when this is the case), he will literally try to fuck the specific cow the entire fucking day. IRS not like he fucks the cow once and then its done, we are talking about the bull following the cow the whole day and continuously (trying to) fucking her.
I would argue, that a single small metal rod is less tiring than a horny bull trying to fuck you the whole day.
And before people are going to throw shit at me: No, this does not mean, that industrial grade factory farming is in any form or shape a good system. I have seen it all and I know how incredibly bad it can be. However, I Am not a fan of throwing the word rape (even if the exact word has not been used here) around, simply because you could somewhat classify the natural process as rape too.
And the cow often ends up hurt, sometimes permanently. Culling for hip displacement and broken legs is not uncommon.
Thats quite of an exaggeration and this can be counteracted.
It is common, that cows can get hurt by the bull, but these wounds are usually only on the skin (this comes from the bull and other cows continuosly mount a single cow). If the ground however is slippery, it can happen that a cow gets hurt due to slipping when another animal tries to mount her. However counteracting this can be quite easy. Since you as a farmer usually know when a cow is ovulating just put her and the bull in a separate area, that has straw on the ground. At least in germany this is also mandatory (to be exact, its illegal to let the bull walk with the rest of the herd).
Well, we end up with at least a few hobbling around for a couple months, and other that show evidence of long-term damage that we will cull after weaning. That’s from a herd of 334 Angus/Simmental which aren’t a huge phenotype like Charolais, where it’s more common. And pasture breeding is the defacto standard in North America.
So no, it’s not an exaggeration, it’s actual experience.
Thats interesting. My parents have a herd of about 100 Fleckvieh/spotted cattle (Including followers) and I couldnt remember that we ever had a case where a cow had a displaced hip or broken leg, because it has been mounted. We had to cull animals because of broken legs, but those were caused by other accidents.
They are not checking for pregnancy. They are impregnating the cows.
Though the anus they hold the cow’s cervix in order to stick the insemination rod: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l6AdaYfgcfk
Getting fisted is better than getting mounted all day? Sure, you’re still gonna exploited throughout your whole life and when they can’t exploit you anymore, killed. But you forgot at least another option besides fisting and getting mounted: not being bred into existence for the sole purpose of being exploited to death.
Why do you care if factory farming is bad?
After taking a second look you might be right. Its kind of hard to see, due to shitty image quality, but they might have insemination rods.
However, I will not engage in any fundamental discussions about veganism, because its a completely pointless discussion that always ends in throwing shit at each other.
Why do you care if factory farming is bad?
Because I’ve seen it all. I know how bad factory farming can be. I was raised on a farm and therefore I would say, that my knowledge about farming is quite big and I know what farming can look like if its done properly.
Sure, you’ve seen and know how bad it is. You also know how not as bad it can be when done otherwise.
But I’m asking why is it bad? And does it have anything to do with the treatment of the animals?
… Because they have seen it in person and know how different factory farming is to ranching properly?
I assume from reading their comment, I’m just guessing
If they don’t hold the cervix, they’re gonna be poking that insemination rod into the cow’s cervix for a while until it gets to the canal.
Discussions like this usually get heated fast. At the end of the day, people make food choices for different ethical, cultural, and practical reasons — it’s probably more productive to talk about systems and standards than attack each other.
I mean… it is.
Looking at this directly from a viewpoint of what is “natural” for the human body, being vegan is unnatural.
Being an omnivore is. Our entire digestive system is such that the natural diet of the human body is an omnivorous one and it does best when treated as such. And that means a small amount of animal fats, proteins, trace minerals, and amino acids in one’s diet.
I’m not going to argue morals or ethics, because that wasn’t what the post was about. It’s what’s about what is “natural.”
Yes, you may disagree with me. Strenuously, and just know that I respect you and hope that you and yours have an excellent day wherever you happen to be on this flaming cannonball of a planet we call home.
The best Thai soup I ever had was from a place called Don Vegan in Quebec City. It was absolutely amazing. Still love a good beef dip though
The Krishna temple in Burnaby used to have a wonderful vegan restaurant. Absolutely amazing food.
I came across a vidya on the interwebs many hears ago where a monkey grabbed a frog and used it as a fleshlight… Ever since then Ive had a different relationship with the word “unnatural”. The truth is that shoving your arm up a cows ass and eating vegan fervantly and being a hater ass bitch are all perfect examples of natural human behaviour…and im well past thinking theyre not.
An act being natural or unnatural is not a reason to say that action is good or bad. I think we all agree unecessarily harming a sentient being is bad though.
I agree with that sentiment, yes. On both counts.
reads some comments
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You know, i used to have more heated discussions about this, but now i feel like I matured a different view on this, at all. I conceive the freedom to chose on a personal ethical base above the idea of punching down ideas just because. Ideally, being vegan is just that, being vegan. You can be whatever… It’s not mandatory to be either.
I eventually found out that any amount of rage or hate for that was only projection of my special insecurities.
I conceive the freedom to chose on a personal ethical base above the idea of punching down ideas just because.
I agree it’s a choice, but I don’t think it’s a personal one given that there is another sentient being victimized in the action.
A bit on the motivation behind vegan activism:
Say you’re against needlessly exploiting animals. And you purchase/produce animal products when there are other options available. You would be needlessly exploiting animals while affirming a contradiction, that would be hypocrisy. Nobody can force you to act on that, but they can point what you’re accountable for.
Vegans believe that most people are against needlessly exploiting animals, so they try to show this to people. Confusion may get in the way, but wanting to put on the spotlight what kind of exploitation people are supporting is what guides them.
Very good explanation on why it’s not a personal choice.
This is how I explain it to people: The animals we eat aren’t able to stand up for themselves, so some people try to do that for them. Kust like how activists do this for dogs or orangutans. It’s not against personal choice, but about trying to protect those who are hurt by the choices of others.
Besides, we all share the same planet and animal agriculture has a big impact on it. So it’s not like our choices don’t affect others.
I would like to have a complementary or firm answer to this, but i recall really well the counter-activism that culminated with personalities like Jordan perterson and the ‘meatfluencers’. I don’t have a clear answer to these issues. Many things are getting expensive too, including meat.
I had a vegan roommate for years. I didn’t cook much meat when he was in the house. But I was never personally vegan. I also did agree that it’s more ethical to not kill for your food, let alone all the other horrors of factory farming. And I’m able to accept that I don’t live up to that more ethical standard.
I think maybe people just don’t like to think someone (especially annoying people) might be doing something better than they are? Like you said, special insecurities.
The only time I ever find myself getting preachy is when people who eat meat talk about halal meat as unethical. I have no idea why it bothers me so deeply when it’s technically fighting for better treatment of animals, but there’s something especially frustrating about the options are:
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Kill them quickly.
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Kill them slowly.
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Don’t kill them.
Probably because there’s an inherent amount of hypocrisy in that argument? Unless they source all their meat very ethically they’re likely supporting factory farms. Which is a lifetime of mistreatment and suffering for an animal. And then they quibble about the amount of suffering at death.
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Yup
I don’t know. I find the people insisting that farmers are the same as pedophiles to be pretty infuriating personally.
Because i don’t want to deal in extremes any longer. We milked that vegan teacher for content long enough, we should know better now. Most vegans are not the vegan teacher, as a matter of fact
You know what fuck you too for apologizing for these fucks
Most vegans might not be (doubt), but every vegan arguing in this thread is or they wouldn’t be here.
Most content about veganism on Lemmy or Reddit is about bashing veganism. It’s honestly really disappointing. This is where conservatives and progressives find each other.
Comparing the rape of a human to the insemination of a cow deserves to be bashed. Psychopathic behavior.
I agree but also fuck humans. I’m sick of humans general entitlement across the board. We aren’t better than anything else
Maybe not but we’re the ones calling the shots for the time being.
The time being is a way bigger dick than we are.
There are differences, but also similarities right? Artificial insemination doesn’t mean voluntary. Swap the species and you’d call the same acts rape.
The vegan making the comparison is likely against rape, as well as artificial insemination of cows.
What makes comparing it deserving of bashing and psychopathic?
Its fucking insulting to rape victims.
God damn I cant handle you people anymore. Please cease to be.
Why is this the top post for like the last week?
Mr.Vegan you realize that cows don’t have a cloaca right?
I tried it for 8 years and my body started to fall to pieces in rather remarkable ways
8 years of forced impregnation will do that
I choose to believe you had arm up your ass for 8 years, I’d like to shake the hand of someone that dedicated… Wait never mind
Life eats life. I’m not going to try to convince a lion to not eat a gazelle, and I’m not going to try and convince a human not to eat the thing its been hunting and eating for 10 thousand years.
I agree that factory farming is terrible. If we are going to eat an animal, its best if we raise it and kill it ourself in the quickest and most painless way possible, to ensure happiness and health during its life and mitigate as much suffering. It also forces us to face the act of death itself, and hopefully be grateful of the animal for the meals it provides.
All things die. As someone who went through “dying”, I can say with some confidence that dying sucks, and you will suffer when you go through it. Whether its being shot, stabbed, strangled, poisoned, or dying of the complications of old age. You are going to suffer unless you’re doped to high heaven on morphine or something similar.
Are vegans going about using opioids to euthanize factory farmed cows in mass? No? Then I guess they’re going to suffer, and I’m not letting them suffer in vain.
THAT would be unethical.
/s
Unlike lions, people have the choice not to eat another animal.
Fucking crazy logic in that last paragraph
I agree. That person is BONKERS.
Might as well eat these cows we’ve raised with the intent to eat in the first place lmao
I agree, but that’s not really what they said
Make vegan food free if you care about animals so much.
Would if I could
There is a significant overlap between people who believe in food stamps/free school lunch/etc. and people who are vegan or vegetarian.
Have you considered helping out with or starting a “food not bombs” in your area? From their site:
Our food is vegan or vegetarian and free to anyone without restriction, rich or poor, stoned or sober. First, the potential for problems with food spoilage are greatly reduced when dealing strictly with plant based foods. Second, we want our food to reflect our dedication to nonviolence and that included violence against all beings including animals. We only prepare food which is strictly from plant sources so people will always know and trust Food Not Bombs that our food is safe and nonviolent. At times, we do get donations of dairy and meat products which might and redirect it to soup kitchens that aren’t vegetarian because we believe eating is more important than being politically pure; however, we NEVER cook with animal products ourselves and only share breads that might have dairy when it is not possible to know for sure.
My take on the veganism I’ve come to know personally is that vegans think they put themselves in the place of animals, but what I see is they put the animals in their own place. In this case, they think that consent should be placed in the animal realm because they believe it for themselves.
This is actually well put. To be honest, I only eat less meat (never really eat red meat unless it is served on special ocations) primarily because of the environment (meat production is far the biggest cause of poluted lands and forrest decrease on earth.) and health. Much meat and in those amounts, isn’t good for your overall health throughout a whole lifetime.
The hole killing thing… As a hunter myself, I have seen what nature does on it’s own. I can say that the way most people kill animals is far more humane than how animals treat animals in nature. Nature is fucking cruel, and so are we.
We get wrapped up in our abstract thought about animals so much that sometimes we forget that we are them.
You’re no man. You’re not even a mammal! You’re an anti-mammal. I call you “an-i-mal”.
I can’t make much sense of your statement. I am flexitarian with a strong leaning towards vegetarian (meat is a rare exception) and a convenient leaning towards veganism (I love cheese, sowwy). But the reason I avoid animal products is because if I can enjoy good food without animals being hurt, then I will prefer that to eating animal products, for which animals get hurt. That’s a very easy decision and doesn’t involve nor require consent of any kind.
It’s fine if you don’t make much sense of it. It surely wasn’t easy to put in words, so maybe I screwed it up. I’m a person who happens to eat a similar diet than yours. And yeah, I’d prefer food with minimal suffering of animals, if I get to choose. I frequently don’t get to choose, reality does that to many of us.
fair enough. Eating animals is definitely “natural”, but humans have evolved to a point where we can live vegetarian / vegan without suffering malnutrition, and since we have both the least empathetic as well as the most empathetic living beings among our species, there’s a good argument to be made for eating vegetarian / vegan when given the option.
I think this post might be too powerful for lemmy shitpost.
