OMG this is so inspiring a story, and got me excited to know what happens next.
How much materially better did your lives get since then Hungarian friends?
Also orban was the middleman for putin for funding things like cpac, and dailywire, and other right wing grifters, funny how they mostly became quiet and in disarray ever since thier faucet was turned off.
And now Trump wants to nominate Orban as UN general secretary. WTF.
I propose a very simple thing. Use AIPAC tracker to decide who to vote for. Only vote for people who’ve taken 0$ from AIPAC.
Vote Blue, just don’t forget that we are still likely going to need to take to the streets and take action anyway in case Republicans do not step down peacefully, or they ratfucked your state’s elections.
Never forget that Republicans broke the social contract between us and our government by ignoring Due Process and breaking the very foundations of the trust in our legal system. They should not longer be protected by said Social Contract, they do not get to have Due Process after they wiped their asses with it.
No fanboying for any politicians, ever anymore. Not Obama, Biden, Newsome or Mamdami. They just need to shut the fuck up and do their jobs. Give them no rope, If they aren’t doing their jobs right, demonstrate, protest, strike, fuck their week up until they do their job. Being competent shouldn’t be treated as being exceptional.
We shouls be rioting in the streets more often in general tbh. Look at the state of our states
I’m not sure being on foot in most US cities is a great idea. Car-centric design and low density means you can’t disrupt much and you’re basically caging yourself in for authorities with car to have their way with you. That’s probably why it’s encouraged. Meanwhile, like 20 cars strategically placed could shut down / turn to chaos a large city.
What if the Democrat fails my purity test? Shouldn’t I punish the country?
Yes, and be sure to call anyone who disagrees a monster and idiot. Bonus points if after calling them an idiot you say something factually wrong like you’re dropping truth bombs. Then step outside and enjoy a victory smoke, the weather is wonderful this time of year in Moscow.
But if I vote for 60% of my interests then I still loose!!?!
Choice 1: 60%
Choice 2: 30%
Not choosing: 0%
Choose wisely.
I think/hope it was sarcasm.
11% sarcasm
Grumble grumble, guess I’ve got to hand this one to the liberals.
Some Americans will justify not voting by using Palestine as an example. Well, yeah, your dems suck too but it’s not a reason to not take action. Voting is easy enough, and at least it really works. Fantasizing about the Revolution won’t do shit.
It’s really all about physically voting. They’re just too lazy. The only way you can get Americans to vote is by putting ballot options on their Facebook feeds. Anything else is too hard and they’ll find an excuse to sit at home instead. Early voting by mail? That requires signing up in the first place and also filling out that pesky paper ballot instead of “forgetting about it” and throwing it away conveniently after the election.
Even at worst, where your candidate doesn’t win, it wouldn’t hurt anything.
At least you’d be doing something, compared to doing nothing.
I’m getting people posting in trans communities telling me not to vote for democrats.
Makes you wonder what percentage of them are foreign adversaries trying to weaken the US (and its allies) - or simply help fascism - by helping the GOP.
Sure, they all say they simply want the US to stop being fascist, but telling people not to vote for Democrats in the General definitely isn’t helping that.
Same people, different disguise, specially on Lemmy.
I remember back in the 2010s the argument for not cracking down on the far right in the USA was that that would trigger a civil war. We saw on J6 how many would show up to fight on their side. They were all there. Now, unfortunately they control the military, so it’s much harder.
Coward liberals always paving the road for the fascists that come after them.
Some Americans will justify not voting by using Palestine as an example.
Don’t forget foreigners posing as Americans to help encourage voter apathy among Americans (so the GOP can win).
Bus stop metaphor. Even if we cant take a train directly where we need to get to, at least we can take a bus in the correct direction.
Best mental description ever. Even self described republicans can surely grasp this idea to be rid of what we have now. I’m heading over to the Library this afternoon to vote early :) ive never voted a straight ticket before. Sort of excited.
Also voting is a way to shift the Overton window. If the left wing party has a thumping majority, those in the party with more radical views (like being against genocide /s) actually have room to manoeuvre and pressure their leader, or even to split off and form their own party.
The Overton window has been shifting to the right for 60 years because the “opposition” party keeps looking to court right wing votes and offers no challenge to capitalism. The Democrat party wasn’t even in full support of gay marriage until like 2012.
The “vote for the lesser evil, do nothing else, and never demand the party move left” option has seen the Overton window shift right consistently, yet here we are, hearing the same things again from the same people and you’re saying actually the opposite of this strategy will happen now for some reason.
People voted for “hope and change” in 2008 and got Barrack Obama and a Heritage Foundation health care reform. Then the reaction brought Trump.
Vote in more milquetoast liberals, and don’t be shocked when worse fascists start gaining ground because your candidates fail to even address the fundamental problem (capitalism), much less tackle it.
many of them became rich, or wealthy if they voted with the gop on many things, they arnt going to let that go. thats why people have a hunch that closed door deals they often meet with mitch who was majority leader most of the time.
Exactly. People can’t just fix everything in one go. And having a “left” majority will at least give a chance to shift the narrative.
In the absolute worst case, the Dems are equally as bad as the GOP on Palestine (though I haven’t seen many Democrats support building Trump resorts over the rubble).
In that worst case, then Palestine isn’t on the ballot, and you shouldn’t base your vote on it, but on everything else happening. The lesser of 2 evils isn’t an exciting vote, but it is, in fact, a lesser evil and preferable to the GOP.
No, in the absolute best case, Dems will be even worse than Republicans so far. But still less bad then what Republicans would become if they got another term. So yes, vote for them, if it makes sense in your state. Just keep your expectations in check.
Here’s the proof: (1) US capitalism at it’s current stage of decline absolutely needs fascism to survive. Profit rates are just too low, any semblance of democracy would be used by the people to prevent pushing real wages even lower, but that’s needed for the engine of the dying economy to sputter on. The empire is dying, no way around it. Like every single time fascism has occurred in history, it will rise this time too, to save capitalism in crisis.
(2) The Democrats are a capitalist party.
(3) Ergo, the Democrats will urgently push to hasten the march towards fascism.
This is not even a prediction, just an observation, a simple statement of fact. You can’t reform your way out of the cold, mathematical laws of economics.
Revolution is not a “fantasy”, it’s literally the only viable alternative to unimaginable suffering. Voting for Democrats can only serve to buy time to organize for real change. In the coming necessary struggle, Dems are the on the same side as Republicans and on the opposite side of humanity and life on earth.
Dude, are you for real? Touch some grass, not everything in life is capitalism.
Capitalism currently controls nearly every aspect of society. We are all living in a fascist world, don’t get butthurt when it is pointed out.
Too soon dude, save it for after the resource wars.
Sounds about right to me.
Voting is easy enough, and at least it really works
Provided your definition of “works” is to preserve an untenable status quo against the people who want to make it worse, then sure.
For those of us looking for actual improvement, voting hasn’t “worked” in over 50 years.
Get the fuck out of here with your fascist apologia bullshit. “BuT vOtInG dOeSn’T wOrK” in a thread literally about voting working. What the fuck do you expect to accomplish with that pathetic, defeatist loser attitude? “Oohh waaah voting doesn’t help so I’ll just sit here and do nothing but discourage everyone else around me to not vote either and then complain more when things get worse and worse”
Wallow in your misery by yourself instead of trying to drag an entire country into your whiny bitchbaby bullshit too
Lol, keep doing the thing that hasn’t worked for 50 years, I’m sure it’ll start working any day now!
The only thing voting for Neoliberal ghouls accomplishes is making it easier for Fascists to win the next election. Liberalism and Fascism are two sides of the same coin, that’s why Liberals always happily compromise with fascists but will never compromise with socialists.
Lol, stay mad tho. That rage will be very useful to you once you finally realize for yourself that the people with all the wealth and power will never allow you to vote it away.
Typical ml user
Typical. world user.
See how silly that sounds?
The commie is on the commie instance, more on this developing story as it unfolds…
I question these comments when I read them.
Do you live in the US?
I can promise you it was much different under Obama, Biden and Clinton.
I do live in the US. And the only thing that was different under them was that it was closer in time to the time when the USSR existed and capital had to compromise with labor to keep labor from revolting. The further we get, the more compromised are rolled back (by both parties, regardless of who’s nominally in power), the worse it seems, but that’s just linear time, not Dem administrations being better.
You know where things were absolutely not any better under Obama, Biden, or Clinton? Anywhere outside the Imperial Core. I promise the people of Libya are not thanking Obama and Hillary for bringing open air slave markets to Tripoli, the people of Gaza aren’t thanking Biden for turbocharging their genocide, fucking nobody with a brain thinks Clinton did anything good for anyone but his Wall St donors. To say
I can promise you it was much different under Obama, Biden and Clinton.
Is to say that you don’t see people outside the US and Western Europe as fully human.
Are you doing anything about it? How do you actually see it happening? Real questions.
And yeah, I mean, it’s a shitty vote, but it’s harmless to go and just do it. It CAN be worse if you don’t. Fuck, even my compatriots vote while being under dictatorship.
Hungary, Brazil, Serbia, Slovenia, possibly Israel, have all rejected Right Wing governments, and Europe has been fighting hard against Right Wing challenges. The Right is struggling hard, and generally not winning. Their biggest prize, the United States, is working to reject them as well.
For what it is worth the Serbian incumbent led the neoliberals and the student list coalition is a big tent opposition movement. And the Slovenian election saw a shift towards the far-right with a supporter of the outgoing Vucic in Serbia gaining the seats the incumbent lost.
Even in Brazil, with Lula’s win you also see a swing in their parliament of liberal parties falling to far-right part gains.
There’s positivity abounds with these elections, but let’s be clear: The Right is only struggling if the billionaire class is struggling.
Do you know the party landscape in Israel?
Netanyahu’s party won.
As was expected with the recently imposed blockade and most of the Israeli population being pro-Zionism
Anti-fraud measures played a huge part as well both in Hungary and Serbia. Groups of volunteers hung around voting stations, spotting and reporting irregularities. Sometimes getting threatened by burly men who brought dozens of impoverished people who sold their votes in vans and stuff like that. They’re the unsung heroes of these elections.
I didn’t know they organized to this extent. That’s awesomey thanks for the link.
There haven’t been many English-language articles on the topic - I’m trying not to be paranoid about it, but it crossed my mind that it’s a bit suspicious. With Trump’s history and interference intentions, I think the importance of citizen preparation and organization cannot be overstated.
I hadn’t read anything about this in Finnish either. What languages have there been articles in?
I’ve read a few in Hungarian. Here’s one about the Hungarian election, here’s another about the Serbian election. Maybe machine translation can help?
But you know what? The documentary the Hungarian volunteers made to raise awareness is available with both English and Finnish subtitles on YouTube! It’s a bit long, but it might be worth a watch!
Please please please, America. Get your orange, shit stained, geriatric, pedo rapist, despotini
into an electric chair,prison,care, under control. We’re begging you! -The rest of the worldMake sure you vote for candidates who will refuse to oust the fascist party, and will enable them to continue their fascism in two years. Vote blue no matter who!
Why vote to show the march of fascism when you can stay home or vote for someone who won’t get elected and allow it to accelerate?! /s
Not only don’t listen to the “both parties are the same” people - get them out of your life, block them, move on to giving your time to people who believe in change. It’s not naive to believe in making progress, it’s naive to think it won’t take hard work and have lots of setbacks.
Exactly also don’t expect to take party on one election and get things changed. Democracy is not a spectator’s sport.
Both sides are the same can be progressive as well. You have to know that voting won’t solve your problems while seeing that it can give marginal improvement.
Yeah the important thing is you do something to actually try and help improve the situation on the ground.
Absolutely. Let them wallow in their defeatist echo chambers. The word for people who insist you can never win is Losers.
Both sides are the same. In that they both serve the Epstein class.
But one side wants to give you health care.
The other side wants to let you die because Line Go Up!
There’s no doubt there are bad apples on democratic party, but the notion that they are one unified block is absolutely wrong.
We essentially have two parties: Republicans and party representing everyone else.
For example check Blue Dogs caucus, those are essentially Republicans that don’t line trump. So called New Democrats are calling themselves centrists. In American politics what’s center is called right everywhere else.
This is why Democrats often fight as aggressive as we would like them too, because they need to find compromises between themselves. Want Democrats that fight for people, vote in primaries and local election and install progressives. There’s a shift, but we need a bigger one.
The wild thing is that republicans are conservative and democrats are centrists.
By “both sides,” people seem to mean right and middle.
Can we have an actual left?
But one side wants to give you health care
Well, part of one side. There are Dem politicians who either don’t support M4A or only support it when it clearly has no chance of succeeding and thus their support will be irrelevant, dropping that support when it starts mattering.
I’m kind of there with you.
“Both sides are bad” = true.
“Both sides are the same” = false.
And really ‘both sides’ are bad because we let them be. More attendance and information for primaries and choices would probably be a hell of a lot more palatable in most places.
I agree, the democrat party in particular does give room to socialist policies on a more local level, just look at Mamdani (and hopefully Al-Sayed in a few weeks). If you elect enough of those and get rid of the “nothing ever happens” democrats like Schumer and Jeffreys, you can make real change happen.
Good luck trying to do that on the Republican side, the most you’ll do is vote for someone who’s slightly less Hitler but still very conservative.
democrat party
Democratic Party
Don’t repeat Trump’s poor grammar.
Both sides are bad, but we stand a better chance of fixing the one that actually wants us to have elections.
One side is:
- raping children
- murdering US citizens
- dismantling the healthcare system without the required approval
- bragging about tampering with voting machines
- starting trade wars and
- starting actual wars.
The other side, for all their faults, are not doing all that.
But they are enabling it and sending an insane amount of money to a genocidal, fundamentalist, child trafficking colony that uses its excess wealth from this corrupt system to keep supplying weapons and money to continue an ever expanding genocide. So that’s not great
Not great, but still better than doing the first list AS WELL AS THE SECOND.
Yes but I’ve been voting blue no matter who for over 20 years. My parents and grandparents died voting blue no matter who for thier entire lives and things keep getting worse and more corrupt and fascist. We need a revolution. These politicians aren’t scared of us and that’s a real problem
You took a meme you liked and wrote it as if you authored it.
If the Republicans stop winning the Democrats can be pulled left, but wherever the Republicans win, the Democrats are pulled right.
You should go back and study revolutions critically. I think you are romanticising revolution quite a bit and the reality is most revolutions are just another group of wealthy people taking control.
“Some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.”
I don’t think I’ll survive 16 more years of this
Thankfully, I doubt trump will either. The sooner the better!
I’m sure the CIA has a heart attack gun. If they really wanted rid of him they could be rid of him.
I suppose the problem really is he’s a symptom rather than the cause. Getting rid of trump doesn’t do anything about the Republicans who allowed this to happen in the first place and were totally okay with it even when he started killing people.
Unless America deals with those people the possibility of returning to a trump like regime always exists.
It’s why Europe no longer trusts the United States, even if a Democrat replaces trump there’s no guarantee that things won’t go back to the way they are now in four years time. That is not an ally that can be relied upon.
Getting rid of trump doesn’t do anything about the Republicans who allowed this to happen in the first place and were totally okay with it even when he started killing people.
Yep, we’d need to undo Citizens United, arrest/disband the entirety of the Heritage Foundation, expand the Supreme Court seats, set term and age limits for all politicians/officials seeking office, and that’s just the bare fucking minimum.
The problem is Vance can’t have 2.49 terms yet.
As soon as he can, trump will either die or be 25thed
All guns are heart attack guns if you know how to aim.
The CIA has always been conservative
I suppose the problem really is he’s a symptom rather than the cause
Yes, but he’s a symptom of Neoliberal Capitalism, which is a bipartisan disease. Clinton ending Welfare as we knew it is just as much responsible for Trump as Reagan gutting unions.
Genuinely curious, has hungary managed to undo any of orban’s meddling in the interceding months? I assume the answer is no.
Actually Peter Magyar, the new president, pass laws to ban Orban from returning to power and purged Orban-appointed officials.
the new president
He’s the prime minister. President of Hungary is András Baka.
It will take years of work, but they made a great start on it.
