An investigation by Gamers Nexus found LG smart TVs sweep local networks to map phones and nearby devices. Tests also showed the sets can capture microphone audio with the screen off — they then upload data once reconnected to the internet.
I think the original coverage from Gamers Nexus should also be linked here:
https://ca.pcmag.com/tvs/17188/yes-your-tv-is-spying-on-you-heres-how-to-stop-it
for anyone wanting to see where to shut down some features
This is a good time to remind everyone to:
- Install Pi Hole, get LG rules to nerf all the telemetric data going out
- Jailbreak the TV, install SmartTube for your YouTube account without ads and live your best life
Even better. Put the LG on a untrusted vlan that only whitelists public IP access.
this is precisely why i never “pair” the voice remote that came with my vizio. just keep using the dumb one from a previous model
I mean I know it’s about LG but they are all doing this.
heres a youtube video of a guy converting his speaker into a microphone if you’re interested.
How to Convert a Speaker into a Dynamic Microphone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LroLf0c2fKM&t=5s
I’m not surprised. Almost everything that you would assume does something in only one direction also does it in the other direction. LEDs generate a small amount of current when you shine a light on them, solar panels emit a small amount of infrared when you apply power to them, etc.
To be fair to solar panels, isn’t about everything emitting infrared if you apply power to it? :x
True
what’s that meme? a schizophrenic is talking, listen and learn
like for real the last 28 years have been extremely good for your credibility as truth seekers
yeah now all the schizos of old are just genuinely 100% right. tuns out we’re being followed the toaster is a spy
there was a time… long past I suppose …when this would have been an outrage and politicians would be holding press conferences where they took crowbar swings to such devices. Things sure have changed.
This is why my tv’s don’t get internet access.
They speculated it could connect anyway via some router brands, that allow specific devices to connect automatically. Since cases like that happened.
So if it’s range of neighbours’ routers, you might be fucked anyway. They didn’t confirm it though, to be clear.
Yea I could see them using Amazon sidewalk or xfinity open access points to get around the no connection thing. But that should be easily discovered if they do.
That… seems like a poor design choice security wise. Might as well carry it into DEF CON wearing a shirt that says “PWN ME DADDY” at that point.
Then you can watch all the depraved porn you want to, and the Government will think it’s coming from the house with the insecure wifi
No, it sends mac addresses. It knows exactly which tv and where, doesn’t care that it connected via your neighbor or some public wifi.
not necessarily, MAC is a layer 2 protocol, and your router (NAT or no NAT) operates on layer 3. Routers are supposed to overwrite the MAC address with their own when they forward a packet.
It’s always possible for the unit to put its own identfying info in the payload. But you didn’t do anything silly like register the TV, did you?
He hacked it without internet access and also show that they can collect data without internet access
My TVs don’t get connected to the network because TV companies have started showing ads, and that was bad enough. Then came the fact that a lot of TV apps were making your TV into a residential proxy, making your TV into part of a botnet. And now, on top of all that, they’re spying on you.
The ads were bad enough.
In any reasonable world you would have control over devices in your house that contained computers and would be able to remove bad software and install your own stuff. But, these devices are all covered by section 1201 of the DMCA which makes it a crime to bypass any access control software. This is how Apple is able to block alternate app stores. It’s why printer ink is the most expensive liquid on the planet. It’s why John Deere is able to remotely brick a tractor anywhere in the world, and prevent farmers from fixing their own farm equipment.
What’s especially galling about this is that, the US forced the rest of the world to adopt this bullshit as a part of trade treaties, threatening that any country that didn’t do it might lose tariff-free access to the US economy. And now what happened? Trump just ripped up those treaties anyhow and imposed the tariffs anyhow.
I just wish there was a country brave enough to rip up the IP agreements the US forced on them and allow us to actually own our own stuff again.
This is why I don’t buy smart TVs in the first place.
Unless you’re buying a commercial screen of some kind, you can’t really buy dumb TVs anymore, at least not from the major brands.
You can still buy dumb TVs you just have to search for them. You can also go off brand and get a dumb TV from a brand like sceptre.
I just don’t have a TV.
I mean that works too, I’m just not a fan of watching things on computer monitors. Sometimes I just want to sit in a recliner and watch a movie on a larger screen.
Yeah that’s fair. Personally, I live in a really small space so steam deck and phone are my only devices. Don’t think I’d feel comfortable with a TV that reported back on me - but TBF I do have a phone which I’m sure is doing that anyway!
Is this even possible or reasonable? Smart tvs are pretty dumb if you never connect them to the internet, so no issues until they decide to add 5g chips to them
Non-smart TVs are still available, they just cost a bit more. As for the connectivity issue, China has been caught hiding 5g chips in electrical control systems and city buses, and selling “free streaming” boxes with malware that scans networks and attacks targets deemed worth while. And all these TVs are being manufactured in China so why take the risk when you aren’t going to use the connectivity anyway?
Specifically which ones? Are they any good? HDR, color accuracy etc?
Or… If your neighbor has an open network… Or the TV has a secret networking protocol that allows it to talk to other LG smart devices that are on a network. Or it looks for phones that have the LG app installed… You get the idea. Once you put wireless capabilities in it, there is any number of ways it can leak your data out.
My solution here (this is my solution; i recognize 99.5% of people would never do this) is to open up the tv and physically remove any wifi adapters or cards. Obviously not stopping them from hiding them, but being under the plastic shell is enough to stop most people
Sure prove it. At least these are proven and now your just making stuff up.
Proving it is the hard and expensive part. I don’t really have the time, skillset, or money to buy a bunch of LG or other branded IoT devices, put them in an isolated test chamber and then try to decode all the RF noise come off them.
That being said, all the technical requirements to do the things I suggested in my previous comment currently exist in those smart TVs. All that was preventing LG from doing that was consumer trust, and they’ve clearly thrown that in the garbage. At this point, based on previous behavior, it should be assumed that they will go as far as possible to exfil customer data without their consent or knowledge, until proven otherwise.
I didn’t read the article and I’ve only watched the “trailer” for Gamers Nexus’ series on this so far, but I bet they actually do check this at some point.
Bingo. No need to connect your display.
Yep an isolated vlan with no internet access. Cast your media from a dongel or computer connected via hdmi.
“The toaster is listening” in 2006 🤣
“The toaster is listening” in 2026 😬
It’s 1984 for sure. Every devices listens.
Frakking toasters.
SO SAY WE ALL!
Is it related to the LG system (lower level like bios, drivers) or with Android TV OS?
Check Hardware Nexus their video, this will tell you enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA
“We own the glass, we own the TV, we own the living room. We know who is in an LG home.” –LG President of Ads
These are the Gamers Nexus videos btw. Support them and their work. Get some cool shirts and physical media while you’re at it.
What is so dumb is he is banned from running a public company so they get him to run a private company. WTF the oligarchs are really this bad.
I thought I had disabled everything but mine was still connected to WiFi. Thanks for the reminder. I disconnected it and blocked it at the router.
Tired of doing this for so many devices. We truly live in a full on surveillance state.
Yeah untrusted devices should run in a client isolated vlan similar to a guest network.
All IOT devices are auto blocked unless I allow them.
Yeah, I’m glad I took the time to set up a separate VLAN for this. It wasn’t easy on my MikroTik router (nothing ever is with those), but it’s worth the effort.
For what I saw in the video, even that way, the fucking TV try to connect to any available wifi to comunicate your data. Its insane
Yeah, I went with LG because I wanted to try an OLED, and the price was right. Never buying anything from them again, and whatever tv I do buy next I’ll disable all the shit from the get-go.
I’ve always been privacy minded, but things have gotten so bad, and I’ve gotten complacent. Hell, I just bought a connected smoke alarm system because my wife and kids needed something they can mute remotely. Should have just bought a stick instead.
I need to replace my WiFi, about time I get one with real VLAN support, so I can build an isolated guest/IoT network.
connected smoke alarm
What the fuck? I would have simply bought a wall powered smoke alarm, opened it up, and wired an auxiliary button to the snooze button’s pads and put that button lower down as one of those wall switch buttons.
You really just need to complete the circuit to make it shut up.
Looks like HAL from space odyssey.
It does!
Alarm: beeps
Push
Alarm: “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that”
…
Alarm: keeps beeping
my wife and kids needed something they can mute remotely
But… why?
Because they are short and my ceilings are tall. We also cook a lot and with kids, smoke happens. So, the requirement from the wife was being able to silence remotely.
There was a good reason for it, but no one can remember why now. Anyway, car been mow knock side
Suggestions for people who only need and want a good screen instead of an ad infested spy station?
Used commercial displays maybe.
Use them as such, why would you give your screen Internet? Attach a Mediacenter of your choice, e.g. Kodi.
Update firmware over USB.
LGs will find nearby wifi that will let them on to phone home. It doesn’t matter if your own network is locked down. And if they’re doing it, it’s likely others are as well.
you would think its as simple as that, but i have seen reports of lg automatically connecting to open networks if they are available
theres also the possibility of them adding some cellular transmitter in the future
maybe the only way is the desolder all the wireless antennas…
Faraday laminate around the antenna also.
Why? Why would I accept a device in my home that will snoop on me if I use it as intended?
Because if you want a screen of a certain size, there are no other reasonable options.
The same reason you might buy a phone that will spy on you and show you ads. You can’t buy a phone that doesn’t do that.
I think the point is they can’t upload anything if they’re not connected. Unfortunately, they’re some of the best OLED TVs right now in terms of the display
I do understand that but I don’t think it’s something we should accept. Next thing these fuckers have their own 5G antenna and connect to mobile with zero config, then what, rip out the antenna or literally wrap it in tinfoil?
I agree. Don’t support what you don’t support. That being said, some people are ok with the trade-offs and that’s entirely up to them
My TV is 15 years old and works fine. Getting the best TV out there is not very meaningful anymore.
Ironically LG still makes good screens. Just don’t ever connect their TVs to the network.
Edit: If you must connect it to a network connect it to a different VLAN (Guest network) with no other devices.
Can confirm. My LG C3 has never touched the internet (and never will) and it’s amazing.
It might be best to connect it to a network that just blackholes the traffic so it doesn’t go hunting for some open wifi.
If it’s like a lot of other devices, it will realize that it can’t get to “The Internet” through that network, and might disconnect. It’s possible it will then look for another option, and might see an open network and use it.
However their budget models (under $400) are very uncompetitive.
TCL and Hisense are much better at those, and you can disable Wi-Fi then plug in your own box.
in capitalist America , you don’t listen to tv , tv listen to you !
It’s fair to make it “you don’t watch TV, TV watches you!”
Which I feel like might have been a real Yakov Smirnoff joke way back when.
Kind of — Bob Hope made the joke in the late 1950s:
Bob Hope, back from his Russian junket, noted that there had been TV in all the rooms of his Moscow hotel–”only it watches you”
Brilliant!
