Absolute treat brained. The veal industry is secondary to the dairy industry. The baby cows are considered a waste product of cow milk production. Meaning if people stopped eating veal but still consumed dairy products it would make no difference to the cows.
People who aren’t honest about what it means to not be vegan won’t last and in most cases won’t change. If it’s only about denying themselves so they can become a better person, like some ascetic then they will fall back into their genocidal ways. If they’re scared about what others think of them they won’t last. Vegans are the safest group of people to make fun of. I know what made me go vegan and it was people not dancing around the fact that these animals that are slaughtered on a conveyor belt had siblings, at least a mom, probably friends who loved them. That me continuing with what I was doing was monstrous.
The people trying to be nice about it I could just ignore. “Agree to disagree” or whatever.
The approach of being confronted by your “murderous” ways worked for you
That same approach won’t work for others. It may work for some, but if 20% of people see what you’re saying, and how you’re saying it, and agree - then you have finally got 20% of people to consider veganism.
The other 80% are reading what you write with a feeling that its over the top and emotive language that doesn’t resonate with them, and only turns them more against the idea of veganism.
Of course, the %s I came up with are made up, just for example - and for the sake of argument I would like you to know that I completely agree with veganism, and agree that what we do to animals is abhorrent and should absolutely change in every aspect.
With that in mind, your approach comes from a place of hatred and negativity and pushes fear and anger. Sure, people such as yourself may be swayed by that approach, but that very same approach is what stops a large number of people taking veganism seriously.
I completely agree with veganism, and agree that what we do to animals is abhorrent and should absolutely change in every aspect.
But I take it you are still part of the literal orphan killing machine? Why should I take your opinions on how to get others to see the evil they’re a part of seriously when it seems it stalled with you on a mere hypothetical level? It doesn’t flatter me that you “agree” with me, if your lifestyle still requires murder or enslavement we are not on the same side. So if your way of convincing others would have others “agree” with me on a theoretical level but not practically, then I’m gonna steer well clear of it.
This is gonna sound really harsh but you’re essentially like a liberal zionist that thinks what they are doing is horrible but continues to live on stolen land.
Yes, based on your phrasing “i agree with veganism”, i read it is an implied “even though I am not vegan”. Hence the first sentence in my reply being a question and implicitly conditioning the rest of what I wrote under that assumption. But I take it then you actually are vegan? In the “minimizing harm to sentient life” sense?
I am relatively recently vegan, been a few months.
But that is not important, nor relevant to this conversation really. Whether vegan or not, my point about the aggression used in trying to “convert” people to veganism not being the best idea, still stands.
No it makes a huge difference if someone who is vegan makes a point about how to talk to non-vegans, because non-vegans keep bringing up these “civility” arguments to silence voices. The “liberals peace” where the violence required to sustain their lifestyle should remain hidden and the problem are people breaking convention by pointing it out.
with regards to my hostility, i believe honest communication is important and that includes emotions. And someone talking about how they don’t eat their flesh but still can’t do without killing their young is upsetting to me. That is someone putting their cheeseburger treats above another beings life, thats angering.
This is why I disagree with vegans who don’t want to watch footage from slaughterhouses and stuff like that. “Oh, I already know what happens there, so I don’t need to traumatize myself.” Okay, I’m not going to force anybody to watch anything, but I will say one thing. It’s really hard to go back to reading meat after that. It makes it much more visceral, in a very literal sense.
It reminds me of that saying “To know and not to do is not to know”. Once you know, there really isn’t any going back.
And you are the reason people think veganism is an on/off thing and will eat meat out of spite.
It’s better to eat less meat, right? I’m still eating the exact same amount of cheese I used to, but my meat consumption is well under half of what it used to be 5-10 years ago.
But if you’re the kind of person who eats meat out of spite, then I’ve already given up on trying to persuade you. I’m going to move on to talk to somebody who’s actually compassionate and not an asshole.
It’s like that Trump voter argument: i.e. some people voted for Trump because leftists were too extreme. No, they voted for him because he said something that appeared to a nasty part of them, and it’s easier to blame the left than to admit that.
If you’re still eating the same amount of cheese then it makes 0 difference. So no, it’s not better. It’s still the same amount of baby cows that need to be murdered so their moms produce milk. It just means the baby corpses rot and aren’t devoured.
Do you think halving your meat consumption over a span of 10 years is anything but glacial? This is what I mean by the focus still being firmly on the oppressor and not the victims that still have to suffer because Adolf Treatler just cannot stop killing their young (but they aren’t eating as many of them as they did 10 years ago!)
Absolute treat brained. The veal industry is secondary to the dairy industry. The baby cows are considered a waste product of cow milk production. Meaning if people stopped eating veal but still consumed dairy products it would make no difference to the cows.
almost no calves become veal anyway
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Dude, you’re coming on too hateful with your comments.
Not everyone will just go vegan in the way you want, or expect. Some people take years, and plenty of change, to finally get there.
You talking to people this way dissuades people. They don’t want to be like “you” which by extension, is vegan.
Just chill.
People who aren’t honest about what it means to not be vegan won’t last and in most cases won’t change. If it’s only about denying themselves so they can become a better person, like some ascetic then they will fall back into their genocidal ways. If they’re scared about what others think of them they won’t last. Vegans are the safest group of people to make fun of. I know what made me go vegan and it was people not dancing around the fact that these animals that are slaughtered on a conveyor belt had siblings, at least a mom, probably friends who loved them. That me continuing with what I was doing was monstrous.
The people trying to be nice about it I could just ignore. “Agree to disagree” or whatever.
That worked for you
The approach of being confronted by your “murderous” ways worked for you
That same approach won’t work for others. It may work for some, but if 20% of people see what you’re saying, and how you’re saying it, and agree - then you have finally got 20% of people to consider veganism. The other 80% are reading what you write with a feeling that its over the top and emotive language that doesn’t resonate with them, and only turns them more against the idea of veganism.
Of course, the %s I came up with are made up, just for example - and for the sake of argument I would like you to know that I completely agree with veganism, and agree that what we do to animals is abhorrent and should absolutely change in every aspect. With that in mind, your approach comes from a place of hatred and negativity and pushes fear and anger. Sure, people such as yourself may be swayed by that approach, but that very same approach is what stops a large number of people taking veganism seriously.
But I take it you are still part of the literal orphan killing machine? Why should I take your opinions on how to get others to see the evil they’re a part of seriously when it seems it stalled with you on a mere hypothetical level? It doesn’t flatter me that you “agree” with me, if your lifestyle still requires murder or enslavement we are not on the same side. So if your way of convincing others would have others “agree” with me on a theoretical level but not practically, then I’m gonna steer well clear of it.
This is gonna sound really harsh but you’re essentially like a liberal zionist that thinks what they are doing is horrible but continues to live on stolen land.
You’re assuming I’m not vegan. Just because I’m not being militant and vicious in my views and beliefs doesn’t mean I believe any different to you.
Theres just a better way of going about it. Your tone is not helping your cause.
Yes, based on your phrasing “i agree with veganism”, i read it is an implied “even though I am not vegan”. Hence the first sentence in my reply being a question and implicitly conditioning the rest of what I wrote under that assumption. But I take it then you actually are vegan? In the “minimizing harm to sentient life” sense?
I am relatively recently vegan, been a few months. But that is not important, nor relevant to this conversation really. Whether vegan or not, my point about the aggression used in trying to “convert” people to veganism not being the best idea, still stands.
No it makes a huge difference if someone who is vegan makes a point about how to talk to non-vegans, because non-vegans keep bringing up these “civility” arguments to silence voices. The “liberals peace” where the violence required to sustain their lifestyle should remain hidden and the problem are people breaking convention by pointing it out.
with regards to my hostility, i believe honest communication is important and that includes emotions. And someone talking about how they don’t eat their flesh but still can’t do without killing their young is upsetting to me. That is someone putting their cheeseburger treats above another beings life, thats angering.
This is why I disagree with vegans who don’t want to watch footage from slaughterhouses and stuff like that. “Oh, I already know what happens there, so I don’t need to traumatize myself.” Okay, I’m not going to force anybody to watch anything, but I will say one thing. It’s really hard to go back to reading meat after that. It makes it much more visceral, in a very literal sense.
It reminds me of that saying “To know and not to do is not to know”. Once you know, there really isn’t any going back.
And you are the reason people think veganism is an on/off thing and will eat meat out of spite.
It’s better to eat less meat, right? I’m still eating the exact same amount of cheese I used to, but my meat consumption is well under half of what it used to be 5-10 years ago.
But if you’re the kind of person who eats meat out of spite, then I’ve already given up on trying to persuade you. I’m going to move on to talk to somebody who’s actually compassionate and not an asshole.
It’s like that Trump voter argument: i.e. some people voted for Trump because leftists were too extreme. No, they voted for him because he said something that appeared to a nasty part of them, and it’s easier to blame the left than to admit that.
If you’re still eating the same amount of cheese then it makes 0 difference. So no, it’s not better. It’s still the same amount of baby cows that need to be murdered so their moms produce milk. It just means the baby corpses rot and aren’t devoured.
Do you think halving your meat consumption over a span of 10 years is anything but glacial? This is what I mean by the focus still being firmly on the oppressor and not the victims that still have to suffer because Adolf Treatler just cannot stop killing their young (but they aren’t eating as many of them as they did 10 years ago!)
most dairy calves are brought to full weight before slaughter
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