Look, I reckon you’ve explained yourself pretty well here mate…

Its tricky because I disagree with some of what you are saying, but don’t disagree with your views as a whole

The major issue is the subsidisation of the meat and dairy industries.

If there were alternatives available that weren’t twice the price, I’m sure more people out there would at the very least try them and start to slowly shift toward veganism… The world would be a much, much better place if all the space used for factory farms just grew crops and stored water instead…

The worlds fucked up, mate… I’m glad you’re at least doing the best you can to minimize your personal impact on nature. I’m also glad others are doing something, even if they are still eating cheese, for example. Slow and steady. The worlds not going to make such drastic change overnight…

I don’t, however, appreciate or see any good in those dickheads who eat burgers in front of people who they know are vegan, for example - or turn up to vegan protests and laugh in their facds and get aggressive, just to upset them. People who just push their views onto others in such malicious and upsetting ways are people who I have a problem with. Sadly, it’s not only meat eaters who do this sort of malicious view pushing…

But again, you know now everything I think and say on the matters…

I’ll leave with a thank you, to you, for taking the time to talk it out :)

I absolutely understand the anger and frustration. Its like talking to a brick wall, sometimes. Sometimes theres also “trick questions” coming from the other side… “What if you were bit by a snake? Would you take the antivenom even though its made from snakes?” for example.

People who “hate” vegans aren’t going to change their ways. The more they hear it, the more they laugh and dig in their heels.

Others, though, deserve a bit of a better chance.

You can say “That was a cow, once. Someone killed it, most likely after tazing it a bunch of times to get it into the corrals, and then if it was " lucky” it died “quickly” with a bolt through its head. If it was unlucky, it laid suffering while the next ones in line watched what was waiting for them ahead."

OR

you can say “You’re one of those fucking carnist pricks who turns a blind eye to murder. You think raping cows is ok as long as you get your little cheese treat? You think hanging pigs upside down by the feet and slicing their necks is worth your bacon breakfast? You think blending baby chicks in a macerator is fine as long as you get your eggs?” etc etc…

One is designed to put down the person you’re trying to “convert”, the other is trying to show them whats happening that they’re blind to.

I, for one, if I’m being put down, am not about to side with someone even if I know they’re right. It sucks, but its human nature. I know your way of putting your points across in this thread isn’t great, because not too long ago I WAS on the other side of the argument. Check my post history, though - I knew/know its wrong to eat meat. I know veganism is the better way of life. I know factory farming is fucked. I know all this.

I also know that when people spoke to me like you do, I failed to take their message on board because they were attacking me, rather than trying to help me.

People like my sister, who has been vegan most of her life, has always been there to answer questions when I had them, and to show me things when I’ve needed to see things… who has had the patience not to rush me into a life-change (Indoctrination into eating meat from a baby isn’t super easy to just change for some people) People like HER helped me come to the right decision.

It took years, but it happened.

Your approach, I fear, takes years and has the side effect of stopping people even considering veganism when they feel attacked.

I am relatively recently vegan, been a few months. But that is not important, nor relevant to this conversation really. Whether vegan or not, my point about the aggression used in trying to “convert” people to veganism not being the best idea, still stands.

You’re assuming I’m not vegan. Just because I’m not being militant and vicious in my views and beliefs doesn’t mean I believe any different to you.

Theres just a better way of going about it. Your tone is not helping your cause.

That worked for you

The approach of being confronted by your “murderous” ways worked for you

That same approach won’t work for others. It may work for some, but if 20% of people see what you’re saying, and how you’re saying it, and agree - then you have finally got 20% of people to consider veganism. The other 80% are reading what you write with a feeling that its over the top and emotive language that doesn’t resonate with them, and only turns them more against the idea of veganism.

Of course, the %s I came up with are made up, just for example - and for the sake of argument I would like you to know that I completely agree with veganism, and agree that what we do to animals is abhorrent and should absolutely change in every aspect. With that in mind, your approach comes from a place of hatred and negativity and pushes fear and anger. Sure, people such as yourself may be swayed by that approach, but that very same approach is what stops a large number of people taking veganism seriously.

Dude, you’re coming on too hateful with your comments.

Not everyone will just go vegan in the way you want, or expect. Some people take years, and plenty of change, to finally get there.

You talking to people this way dissuades people. They don’t want to be like “you” which by extension, is vegan.

Just chill.