Was this movie any good?
How insane to you need to be to think the ancient Greeks didn’t know about Africa? literally all of art history comes down the the Egyptians and Greeks teaching, learning, and reteaching each other art skills over the course of centuries.
Black people were invented by Woke Hollywood in the year 2019 AD in order to ruin movies.
Americans are so weirdly racist. Both Europe and Africa are along the Mediterranean. From the southern most point in Greece to the North most point of Africa is less than 400km. The whole region of North Africa and Southern Europe is an ethnic melting pot dating back 1000s of years.
But regardless of that, it’s Mythology - not a documentary. I’m not looking to be “immersed” in American racism. I have zero issues with the cast representing the world I live in now, because it was made in the world I live in now, and features the people I live with now.
Americans are so weirdly racist.
As are Europeans. Look at the Danes for example and thier protect our couture immigration polices, whites only under another name. Germans just now having another nazi moment, Italy and the fall and current rise of Mussolini like politics. Then lets not talk of Poland and Hungary etal
Don’t tell the Americans that Romans were Latin, they’ll invent a time machine to bring ICE to ancient rome
Apparently the justification is “North Africans look white.”
These people geniuenly think melanin is binary and the blackest person from Tunis still looks Irish-American.
I haven’t watched the movie, but I would imagine Africans is pretty common around Greece?
Yes, and because, as everybody knows, black people didn’t exist until modern times. 😒
They were officially invented in 1612 when the politically correct baron Du le penii of asswipe got high and said white girls have no ass, so he invented black people!
This is a joke but honestly not that far off
Interesting, sad, and no surprise. From the linked article:
"Role in the History of Racist Ideas
In the 21st century, the work of Zurara has been re-examined for its foundational role in the development of modern racist ideology. Historian Ibram X. Kendi, in his 2016 book Stamped from the Beginning, argues that Zurara was the world’s first racist because his chronicle was the first to articulate a comprehensive defense of the African slave trade based on the concept of Black inferiority.[12] Kendi posits that Zurara’s writing was not the cause of the Portuguese slave trade but rather a product of it; Prince Henry’s economic and political self-interest in the trade of enslaved Africans came first. Zurara was then tasked with creating a narrative to justify these policies.[13] According to this view, Zurara’s chronicle established a powerful and enduring justification for racism by portraying enslaved Africans as savages who were being civilized and saved through their enslavement, thereby creating racist ideas to rationalize pre-existing racist policies.[14]"
Someone certainly didn’t do all that well at their history lessons. If Memnon led an ARMY from Aethiopia to the siege of Troy there might’ve just been …say, a few people of different fucking complexions mucking about in the immediate aftermath of said siege.
Not to mention all the trade going on for centuries in those parts.
…and also, yeah, a Cyclops is just fine because it happens to be the right color, right?
But this is otherwise a complete dealbreaker, is it? What the fuck? (I mean, I know it’s just a racist piece of shit spewing idiocy, but still, what the everliving fuck?)
My immersion of Ghost of Tsushima was ruined when I saw female lords being treated as equals to male lords.
I thought, “were they really equals back in Feudal Japan? This ruins my immersion.”
Then our brave, rugged, honorable lead Samurai who we respect, jumps on to his knees and prostrates himself at every opportunity in front of his uncle/lord, saying unironically how unworthy he is to exist in the presence of such a divine being…
…and I was like, “oh yeah. In those moments where he is actually true to his period, I lose all respect for him.”
Fair play game, fair play.
What language were the actors speaking in?
He means the immersion of his nazi fantasy land. The one where he is superior and only good white people exist. No jews, no other ethnic group other than Germanic, Nordic, Slavic or - dare I say - Saxon, Anglo even. Anything that breaks this delusion sends him off into a spiral of rage.
Then he posts about it online.
Would the cyclops explain Laertes being played by an actor who is Maori?
This bigot is stupid because Africa is right fucking there. But audiences at large might ask ‘what the fuck?’ if anyone in ancient proto-Greece was plainly Native American. And that mass response almost cannot be wrong. Anything that takes everyone out of the story is a failure of storytelling. Working around that is not difficult: do it early. That’s how you make people go ‘holy shit, a cyclops!’ instead of ‘why the fuck does this movie have a cyclops?’
Suspension of disbelief is not something the audience owes. It’s a trust that the story will follow its own rules. Every story has rules, and the ones it does not provide are filled in with ones you already know. That includes rules from other stories: nobody in Harry Potter bothers explaining that brooms can fly. But that made-up element is not carte blanche for someone to wield a lightsaber. The rules you know for fantasy would excuse a surprise dragon, but not a surprise spaceship. Nor could an eleven-year-old boy from jolly old England whip out a handgun, without breaking immersion, even though handguns are real. A story where that kind of character can have that kind of object takes an entirely different shape.
It is important to avoid bad arguments even when dunking on the dumbest motherfuckers alive. We don’t need to undermine the concept of criticizing fiction, just to tell a crybully racist to fuck off.
What about all the Gauls/Celts they cast as Greeks? Complete immersion break. :P
Don’t they know the ancient Greeks didn’t have film technology! How can I watch this?
That’s funny, bc too many racist ppl ruin my immersion in life
They ruin my fantasy that most people aren’t hateful and cruel.
What’s that big ol’ thing lying there on the Mediterranean? Oh, its Africa.
North Africans aren’t black though. I don’t think they were during Ancient times either
they weren’t white either. and black Africans were well known to all of Africa and the Mediterranean FAR further back than written history. Greeks aren’t even white, as far as you want to use “white” as some kind of identification, it’s useless other than as a racist concept to harm other people, but the most generous inclusions are pretty fucking difficult to include Greeks in. dark skin, woolly hair, blunt noses, a language distinctly outside European language roots. you got nothing.
I didn’t talk about anyone being white though
Sorry, man, I thought this was about that film and the actors in it, and their ethnicity. my bad. didn’t realize you were having a no context argument unrelated to this entire fucking thread.
No worries, but yeah I was just talking about the stuff I actually said
“How dare this work of fiction not be my interpretation of historically accurate?!”
That’s sorta their complaint yeah
And my complaint is that that is a stupid fucking child’s complaint.
Oh fun history time!
Especially a couple thousand years ago, the Sahara was far smaller, and far lest hostile to life. The last trees only died in the Sahara about 20 or 30 years ago. Caravans crossed regularly. On top of the very easy route from Sudan to Egypt, and the Greeks were obsessed with Egypt. Even the Bible talks about Nubians in Ancient Egypt, so if even that as a “source” knows about the well-documented reality that Sub-Saharan populations were in contact and well-known individuals present in North Africa and the Levant as far back as 5,000 years ago.
I mean, did you not even think to search for this before spouting off? Literally the first search result for “did black people greece”:
Edit: meant to paste this link - my bad - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Greeks
And to add on to your point about the Sahara being less hostile, it used to be filled with life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period
This period ended right around when recorded history begins. Because the Sahara was not hostile it created a corridor for plants, and animals, and people to make an easy crossing into the levant and then further into Asia and Europe.
Yeah, it’s wild how there’s just a 5cm thick layer of salt down under the sand, and mining salt slabs from the ancient sea is how most nomadic groups flavor their food.
Plus all the rock art and ancient cities just out in the middle of nowhere today. I once bought a dinosaur tooth from a guy that 1) agreed with claims I had heard that the mountains in the Sahara still harbor things like peach trees, and 2) that there are badlands style areas where herders just find dinosaur bones lying around.
gasp
people migrate and stuff?
bewildered
Why didn’t the Greeks build a wall? Are they stupid?
They did but people kept sneaking in on giant wooden horses
There were plenty of sub-Saharan African people in Ancient Greece.
Do you happen to have a source for there being plenty?
Define “plenty”.
The ancient Greeks didn’t care about skin tone in the modern sense, so there isn’t some racial census data like we have now.
https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/
They make trivial to find references to black people and depict them in the manner they depict themselves in art.
Because their division was not “Greek” and “black” but “Greek” and “not Greek”, they simply didn’t document it.
Aristotle describes the ideal skin tone as halfway between an Ethiopian and a woman.Black people were quite literally unremarkable to them, so it’s pretty easy to argue that an ancient Greek wouldn’t find it odd to travel with a black person.
I think I’d like the person who made the claim to tell us what they meant with “plenty”. A reference here and there to there having been a black person in Ancient Greece doesn’t feel like it’s proving the claim, but they might’ve meant just that when they said “plenty”.
they simply didn’t document it
That makes it sound hard to prove
Alright, demonstrate that the demographics are as you assert they are. I’ve shown you that they’re depicted in their arts and culture, both as they depicted outsiders and as they depicted themselves, as well as that they had unremarkable interactions with Ethiopia and beyond.
The link also details the history of using the racial composition of ancient Greece for all manner of racial weirdness that wasn’t representative of the Greeks themselves, up to and including Internet race weirdos who get bent out of shape about a black person being depicted in a movie set in the Mediterranean.At this point you’ve been given plenty of evidence that there sufficient numbers of dark skinned people that it wasn’t remarkable. If you disagree that it would somehow have been remarkable, or that this isn’t a perfectly workable definition of “plenty”, then show some reason why beyond “well everyone knows”.
Hell, demonstrate that there were plenty of white people.You’ve shown that Greeks had connection and knew about black people but that wasn’t disputed… The claim was that there was “plenty” of black people in Ancient Greece. Connections to people being in Ancient Greece aren’t the same…
I’m not sure why you are taking the burden of proving someone else’s claim but you’re now trying to spin that burden to me to prove it the other wat around. That’s just silly.
Why not trust the other guy to make their case?
What’s most immersion breaking is that they put pants on the Greek soldiers.
And the Viking ship
Pants on a Viking ship…?
I’d kinda like to see that.
Like this?
Or like this?
i say the dragon wears 'em like a bib, because the dragon is cool like that
The second one. The boat is meant to represent a dragon, just without the appendages, and the second one is where its back legs would be. Could also have a pair for up front, I suppose.
That begs the question if pants are a “back legs only, not front legs”, or “legs only, not arms”.
Taking it to the extreme, would pants for a centipede look more like a tube with “sleeves” all along it or just like a tiny pair of normal (to us) pants?
This was under the assumption that it’s a 4 legged dragon. If the theoretical front appendages are arms, no pants up front. Although thinking about it again, with no junk to protect, front pants are kinda useless, so maybe don’t bother with them at all.
I’d say for any animal with multiple legs that are very close together, no pants at all would be best. At that point they’d be more of a hindrance than a help!
A riddle more intriguing and mesmerizing than Theseus’ ship
The jeans wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty rivets, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old denim as they decayed, putting in new and strong patches in their places, insomuch that this jean became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the jeans remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same.
The true mpv of this entire thread.
