Do not adjust the gas tax for 33 years, do not listen to all the civil engineers telling you heavy vehicles do almost all road damage, and propose a tax with no method of enforcement. Brilliant leadership out of DC.
I pay over $250/year for that privilege in Washington state. The goal is to make up for the gasoline tax I don’t pay - which is fair in principle, because gas tax is used to maintain the roads we all drive on. What’s not fair is that it’s a flat amount. I drive less than 6000 miles/year. The electric car flat fee is approximately the gas tax a Prius driver would pay to drive twice that far. So to drive an all-electric car I’m being taxed twice as much tax as if I drove a hybrid. Insane.
Roughly half of the money that gets spent on US roads comes from sales taxes, property taxes, income taxes, etc., and none of that bears any relation to how much driving you (we) do.
I’m really trying to figure out how that makes it OK to tax an EV for double per mile as compared to a prius. The only point I see you making is that roads are fucking expensive to maintain and they drain taxes from everywhere.
I wasn’t trying to say “Therefore it’s all OK,” so much as “none of this makes any sense, none of this has ever been fair.”
Even non-drivers wind up paying taxes for roads.
And this is on top of the fact you pay an electric tax when you charge.
EVs in Washington are already double taxed!
They want BEV owners to feel the same financial shit as those who made bad decisions buying massive gas guzzlers. It’s a ploy to get people avoid buying BEVs now that they’re seeing them gain popularity. They won’t be able stop the transition that’s coming, BEVs are the future, more efficient, cleaner, resilient to global geopolitical shit.
Give us cross country high speed rail and you got a deal.
What about all the subsidies we pay on gas? Maybe get rid of those if you want some revenue?
But if we stopped subsidizing the richest corporations in the world then the Chinese would win. Is that what you want? /s
This. Countries around the world could save SO much money if they stopped subsidizing the fossil fuel industry. But no, better increase the tax on the middle class…
I don’t mind a road tax. I prefer it over tolls. We already pay gas taxes for infrastructure. My issue is that it is a set price. I honestly think it should be based on the price and weight of your vehicle, and your annual mileage. A subcompact for your daily 20 minute commute is less damaging to the road than a truck traveling 70k miles per year is.
My other problem, no guarantees that it will be used for infrastructure.
Interesting points to me are the fact that this 130 fee is:
- more than what the average fuel consuming car pay (70-90)
- Is on top of what many people already pay in state taxes to drive their car
As pissed as I get at fees, electric cars don’t typically pay a gas tax, the taxes we levy on fuel pay for road maintenance so that fee should be for road repairs. In my very small car I pay around $1.80 or so each week in federal fuel tax (not sure what I pay to the state, but those combined is very likely over $130/yr).
Electric cars pay electricity tax. Gas cars pay gasoline tax. We don’t need to tax electric cars even more.
Which portion of the electricity tax is used to repair the roads they use? Not trying to be too defensive but if we all switched and didn’t pay more, the roads would be even worse than they already are.
Whatever % of the general budget goes toward roads. Money is fungible, this has the same answer as: What portion of sales tax pays for roads, what portion of income tax pays for roads, what portion of land tax pays for roads?
The important part here is that you do pay taxes when you charge your EV. We don’t need to double tax EVs.
Well that sounds like they should implement a tax on energy used to power EV.
Easy enough to implement at paid charge stations. Both homes I’ve had chargers installed at are on programs where the utility knows exactly how much energy my EV charger uses.
As of now, a flat amount charged by the state doesn’t account for actual usage, even if it is a straight forward implementation. the down side to your suggestion is that it requires each state to implement, and it increases EV ownership (cost of installing meters in existing homes without one) also enforcement is another thing that would increase costs probably significantly.
I kinda think updating registration laws/procedures would be a better method. have EV drivers record their odometer every year or whatever time schedule and set it that your registration fees is based on mileage. Have sales require that odo mileage listed with the old owner paying that last bit of mileage owed in taxes. This way, a new owner has a reason to help enforce the odo mileage. No i dont want to say you drove 20k miles than listed, cuz then next time i have to pay for those 20k on next registration.
The gullible part is thinking the federal government fixes the roads with your money at all. More than likely it’ll go to Israel.
I bet the pick ups will pay less than an EV driver and are one of the main causes of road damages
I mean, I can point to specific projects and show you the federal funding if you really want, but like we’re not here to argue. We both know you’re right, just like those cones get paid for by someone.
Almost all the road work around me is state, not federal.
Sounds good… who do I pay $130/year to to get to drive an EV?
Trump :(
I don’t know the correct answer to this exactly, but given that I’ve only driven my car (hybrid) about 4k miles total over the last 2 years since I got it (April '24), and paid less (but not $0) in gas tax, but still got hit with the full $130 extra fee is absolutely infuriating. I hadn’t even owned it a full year yet but still had to pay a non pro-rated amount (my previous car was a regular gas car).
I’m basically paying almost 6x the rate per mile since I drive so little. I’m the one stuck paying extra because I can’t afford to drive enough to justify the full amount, and subsidizing some high mileage driver out there.
I realize tracking mileage has privacy implications, so I don’t know a perfect solution, but it fucking SUCKS to get ripped off this hard. While being on disability due to injury and other surgeries, too. I mean I’m still building strength and endurance back to be capable of working again, preferably this year, but I’m the meantime, taxes are fucking killing me.
At least with an EV I would have 0 in gas taxes instead of paying the “not paying gas tax” fee on top of the gas tax- while gas is almost $5 a gallon.
So much bullshit.
Edit- I just noticed that my state does offer a mileage based option, but you have to plug a doodad plugged in the ol Ob2 port or whatever it’s called. And then use an app to upload your mileage information, which I believe happens more than once a year, which is weird and more privacy breaking, given that registration is only assessed once a year (or less, if you pay 2 or 3 years ahead). That gives them not only your total mileage for the year, but which month you got those miles in.
I assume per month, but I don’t actually know. I assume it’s once per year, because they added that in addition to using that device and the app, that you have to annually send a photo of your odometer to what they actually called “true up” your info.
If they’re relying on that photo to be the most reliable part, then that should be the only part needed. It’s basically screaming in our face that the device and app is definitely just for “spying purposes that we actually make money on”.
Personally I don’t want to even give them the photo, especially since it’s about a $150 fee a year. So given that I drive less than a quarter of whatever is normal now (I’ve heard “normal” is 10-15k miles per year, but I’ve only heard it from my parents, so I don’t actually know- and again I’ve gotten about 5k over 2 years), I see this as being assessed it to be a little under $40 for the actual fee, and a little over $100 for the “keep your nose out of my business” fee.
they want you trapped in the fossil fuel death spiral
Fuel taxes pay for roads. If you don’t buy fuel you don’t help pay for roads to drive your EV on.
I own an EV and already pay an extra road tax for having an EV to my state, on top of more for tires, more for insurance, more for repairs, and more for public fast charging thanks to the government’s failure to build up charging infrastructure at a decent pace. Why should I pay another tax to the federal government?
The “if things weren’t insane right now” answer is that state taxes don’t directly go to support the federal highway system, that’s funded through things like gas tax as well. The current real answer is “fuck you and your tamed lightning car, liberal”
Kinda figured it was something like that, in both cases lol
This is a whole different argument that I never really mentioned, but that is correct. This is a federal tax, meaning it would stack on top of any type of state tax.
Fuel tax only pays 25% of the cost of roads.
End gasoline and oil subsidies by taxpayers and put them into the road budget.
Are there no vehicle taxes in the US?
You pay to renew your vehicle registration. At which time you may also have to get smog tested, it’s not every year.
Arkansas already charges an extra $200 annual registration fee for electric vehicles.
Just paid $500 for the privilege in PA ($250/yr, paid upfront).
That’s usually the case, as electric vehicles don’t pay taxes on gas which is used for roads. Basically a system to make people who drive pay for the roads (and people who drive more will pay more as well).
I would be happy to pay for that purpose, but it’s way more tax than I would pay in fuel for the number of miles I drive.
Plus they’ve been waiving gas tax to make themselves look better on gas prices. So, right now, I’m subsidizing gas drivers.
This is climate change denial in action. Any normal country would incentivize people to switch to EVs, not the opposite.
We shouldn’t be subsidizing any form of personal vehicle ownership imo
Unfortunately standard ICE Cars are already heavily subsidized in North America
If you look at temperature data for the past 15,000yrs or so you’d see that we are in the Holocene with a great temperature for humans to survive. The temperature for the duration of the Holocene period fluctuates a little which is the climate change we’re seeing. The scale is so small though that the climate change we’re seeing isn’t meaningful to any greater change and infact we’re on a downward trend within the fluctuation.
Now all that is not to say that we shouldn’t take measures to not destroy our environment, because we should care about our planet. There are so many more important and more immediate things to be worrying about than this grand idea of climate change, such as the magnetic pole shift
Dudes out here telling us not to worry about climate change contradicting the entire scientific community, and the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Great job douche bag, you should apply to become a fossil fuel CEO, you’d fit right in.
Totally misconstruing what I said
I’m pretty sure you said climate change isn’t a concern right now. Did I miss something? Your comment was very clear on that. And unfortunately you’re very wrong, but nobody admits being wrong on the internet (rarely anyway).
You misread or misinterpreted what I said. The main climate change talks are trying to say humanity is what’s primarily causing climate change. This is false as per the historical data in reference to the Holocene period. I also stated that we shouldn’t discount trying our best to take care of our planet. Since humanity is not the primary cause of climate change we should be focused on larger issues and not politicize this stuff
Didn’t expect to see one of you types in the fediverse.
No, you’re wrong. Human induced climate change and its dangers are all very real. Sure, the news reporting is sensationalist, but the facts are all there for you to check out, science going back almost a century.
What type might I be? I didn’t deny human induced climate problems, just that they are sensationalized. Science is constantly evolving and relatively recent evidence shows what I originally stated with the temperature fluctuations of the Holocene.
Oh so you’re not a denier, just a downplayer? We need to do more to turn this around, not less.
I believe climate change is a politicized topic and not focused on the real reasons that our climate is changing. This is the standard method politicians use to get people to fear something and side with a certain political party. Politics should be removed from climate change because it’s not political, It’s historical/science based. Looking at historical data shows that well before humanity started polluting the air that the climate had huge fluctuations due to other factors. These other factors are what we need to do more research into and that some people have pretty good theories on what the factors could have been
Miles driven * vehicle weight makes way more sense.
Gas tax should cover the federal subsidies (include military/security costs…) and a carbon tax based on the percentage of total estimated cost of climate change recovery,mitigation, and damage control.
People could just buy EV SUVs and Pickup trucks so the degrading road infrastructure would be less of an issue.
Or they could order doordash once less a month and put that money towards the common good.
How does purchasing a biggy, heavier vehicle that damages the roads more quickly, fix our problems with degrading road infrastructure?
Big wheels roll over potholes better.
This is a very short sighted solution. We can’t just keep making bigger and bigger cars as infrastructure gets worse and worse.
Larger vehicles are more dangerous, less efficient, and damage roads more quickly
I’m obviously being facetious.
It’s not obvious when the internet is full of stupid people lol
When they tried this last year it was scrapped because there was no practical way to collect it. Are we going to have a national car registry? That would take more money than it would collect. If they just ask a question on tax filing, I’m just going to lie.
My understanding is that this time they want to force the states to collect the fee on behalf of the federal government, with the threat that they’ll withhold federal funding if the states don’t do it. I don’t see how they could possibly enforce that either, though.
How are you Americans doing car registration? As someone from another country it sounds a little bit crazy to not have a national car registry. Is this on the state level? And if someone from Texas is caught speeding in Arizona, police has to as there for the ID of the owner? Or is there no registry at all? And why shouldn’t states be able to collect a tax from their citizens?
The US is a fake country. States have a massive amount of power, they control vehicle registration, sales tax, school programs… the federal government might as well not exist. The same applies to other so-called countries like Germany.
I dunno how this works, but I’d assume this national car registry already exists at the DMV because you have to register your car to drive it, no?
No. The registries are all state-level, though many states do allow other states to query their systems.
Oh I forgot they were state level, I’d guess Congress could either tell states to give them the list of electric cars or ask the states to do the deed for them. I guess that could be a hard task if every system is very different. Not sure.
In theory, constitutionally-speaking, Congress doesn’t have jurisdiction to command that, and trying would cause a judicial battle that could last long enough for grown-ups to take back over.
