Look, I reckon you’ve explained yourself pretty well here mate…
Its tricky because I disagree with some of what you are saying, but don’t disagree with your views as a whole
The major issue is the subsidisation of the meat and dairy industries.
If there were alternatives available that weren’t twice the price, I’m sure more people out there would at the very least try them and start to slowly shift toward veganism…
The world would be a much, much better place if all the space used for factory farms just grew crops and stored water instead…
The worlds fucked up, mate… I’m glad you’re at least doing the best you can to minimize your personal impact on nature.
I’m also glad others are doing something, even if they are still eating cheese, for example. Slow and steady. The worlds not going to make such drastic change overnight…
I don’t, however, appreciate or see any good in those dickheads who eat burgers in front of people who they know are vegan, for example - or turn up to vegan protests and laugh in their facds and get aggressive, just to upset them. People who just push their views onto others in such malicious and upsetting ways are people who I have a problem with.
Sadly, it’s not only meat eaters who do this sort of malicious view pushing…
But again, you know now everything I think and say on the matters…
I’ll leave with a thank you, to you, for taking the time to talk it out :)
The major issue is the subsidisation of the meat and dairy industries.
your personal impact on nature
It is a major issue but not the major issue, veganism is also not about “impact on nature” in the environmentalist sense but it is at it’s core about animal liberation. About bringing the stupefying amount of violence we enact upon our kind down to zero. It has to be clear always that all animals have a free will and to inhibit that is wrong. This has to be at the core of the discussion and on every ones mind while discussing veganism.
So someone “doing something even if they are still eating cheese” still has a long way to go. Like how smoking one pack a day is better than smoking two packs a day in the technical sense, but practically it’s not something you brag about the way people here have been talking about not eating as many corpses as before (Wow half as many as 10 years ago!! Progress!!!). Sure people will give encouraging words to someone slowly quitting smoking, as they should, but it is always clear that it can’t stop there. And this part seems to be completely lacking from the discussion here.
And, because I’ve seen this example used by non-vegans coming up with excuses for eating cheese, it’s important to note the fact that meat or cheese or whatever is not an addiction. A smoker or alcoholic struggling is struggling of chemical dependency. A non-vegan struggling might be struggling because of systemic issues (availability of medicine, dietary restrictions etc.) but they aren’t struggling because they “crave” it. Any such “craving” is them prioritizing their comfort over someone else’s freedom.
If there were alternatives available that weren’t twice the price, I’m sure more people out there would at the very least try them and start to slowly shift toward veganism
I’m just gonna pick this out because it’s relevant to the cheeseburger example. Most of the time there is no need for an alternative. You can eat burger without cheese, breakfast without eggs, really aside from baking most of the time you can just leave out the non-vegan ingredients and don’t need to substitute it. Cheese in particular is such a sticking point for me because it’s just not necessary. Ever. The only dish where cheese is a legitimate ingredient is casserole and you can then just use nutritional yeast instead.
Look, I reckon you’ve explained yourself pretty well here mate…
Its tricky because I disagree with some of what you are saying, but don’t disagree with your views as a whole
The major issue is the subsidisation of the meat and dairy industries.
If there were alternatives available that weren’t twice the price, I’m sure more people out there would at the very least try them and start to slowly shift toward veganism… The world would be a much, much better place if all the space used for factory farms just grew crops and stored water instead…
The worlds fucked up, mate… I’m glad you’re at least doing the best you can to minimize your personal impact on nature. I’m also glad others are doing something, even if they are still eating cheese, for example. Slow and steady. The worlds not going to make such drastic change overnight…
I don’t, however, appreciate or see any good in those dickheads who eat burgers in front of people who they know are vegan, for example - or turn up to vegan protests and laugh in their facds and get aggressive, just to upset them. People who just push their views onto others in such malicious and upsetting ways are people who I have a problem with. Sadly, it’s not only meat eaters who do this sort of malicious view pushing…
But again, you know now everything I think and say on the matters…
I’ll leave with a thank you, to you, for taking the time to talk it out :)
Sorry I have more thoughts. On
It is a major issue but not the major issue, veganism is also not about “impact on nature” in the environmentalist sense but it is at it’s core about animal liberation. About bringing the stupefying amount of violence we enact upon our kind down to zero. It has to be clear always that all animals have a free will and to inhibit that is wrong. This has to be at the core of the discussion and on every ones mind while discussing veganism.
So someone “doing something even if they are still eating cheese” still has a long way to go. Like how smoking one pack a day is better than smoking two packs a day in the technical sense, but practically it’s not something you brag about the way people here have been talking about not eating as many corpses as before (Wow half as many as 10 years ago!! Progress!!!). Sure people will give encouraging words to someone slowly quitting smoking, as they should, but it is always clear that it can’t stop there. And this part seems to be completely lacking from the discussion here.
And, because I’ve seen this example used by non-vegans coming up with excuses for eating cheese, it’s important to note the fact that meat or cheese or whatever is not an addiction. A smoker or alcoholic struggling is struggling of chemical dependency. A non-vegan struggling might be struggling because of systemic issues (availability of medicine, dietary restrictions etc.) but they aren’t struggling because they “crave” it. Any such “craving” is them prioritizing their comfort over someone else’s freedom.
I’m just gonna pick this out because it’s relevant to the cheeseburger example. Most of the time there is no need for an alternative. You can eat burger without cheese, breakfast without eggs, really aside from baking most of the time you can just leave out the non-vegan ingredients and don’t need to substitute it. Cheese in particular is such a sticking point for me because it’s just not necessary. Ever. The only dish where cheese is a legitimate ingredient is casserole and you can then just use nutritional yeast instead.