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https://crazypeople.online/post/13549061
original post.
Why am I cross-posting .ml content?
I cross-post from .ml to the nearest relevant non-.ml comm to reduce the influence of .ml comms and indirectly, the instance as a whole, to make it an easier decision for other instance admins to defederate because one key reason I identified that admins don’t want to defederate is because .ml still has some very large comms and some niche comms.
Some highlights from the link:
"Don’t worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/30580167
“See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn’t count!!” ~ Davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/30673342
.ml admin, Nutomics continued transphobia https://lemmy.world/post/29222558 The original transphobic Comment from Nutomic: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068
“NK is actually good and anything counter to that is Western propaganda!” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/31595035
General negative sentiment to other instances who haven’t “seen the way” yet ~davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/27426510
“If you don’t support Russia then you just don’t understand geopolitics” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/27352415
And so so much documentation on clear heavy handed censorship and bias also on the link. So much I can’t even put them all here because this comment would be really long.
I believe the behavior of its admins (the main admins are Lemmy devs) does harm to the overall growth of the Lemmy-verse and maybe even the Thrediverse (since Lemmy kinda kicked off the Thrediverse) because of its association with the devs of Lemmy and their insistence to use .ml as their personal political platform to spread harmful propaganda
On the outside, bringing up Lemmy frequently leads to comments like “Lemmy? Isn’t that the place with a bunch of tankies?” Or “Tried Lemmy, but found it full of pro Russia crap so I left”. The best way forward from that I see is to either widely defederate from .ml like the rest of the Triad, or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team.
Wait so if the Lemmy devs are transphobic… Should there not be a fork at this rate? Also, I’ve heard a lot of shit talked about .ml and seemingly for good reason but what’s the story with all this? How did it get this bad?
Forks for ideological reasons will almost always fail if the issue isn’t with the code.
The lemmy devs bad opinions have not made it into lemmy itself.
The good thing is, this is a federated service, and many instances are defederated from them if you want that. Also, they haven’t added anything to the code that’s bad, and it can be forked if they do.
Meanwhile, piefed, while it seems nice, has issues too. The language they’re using, while it is easy, so allows for easier contribution, isn’t as fast/powerful. They also hardcoded a block list for things like meme communities, and IIRC “NoMoreMuskSpam”, and things like that. This can be removed by admins, but by default they’re blocked. It’s pretty stupid.
Basically the ml owners are the lemmy mods who also own the grad instance.
They are terrible people and it got this far because lemmy was the alternative to reddit that wasn’t filled with racism, transphobes and incels, so people with good intentions stuck and cheered for lemmy to develop while they hosted their own instances with their own rules so at least they didn’t have to tolerate the lemmy devs, hexbear and their trolls too much.By this point there is kbin (or mbin? i keep forgetting) and piefed, there’s no need to support lemmy in anyway anymore, hence why there are more and more instances defederating from ml altough some still federate with them like dbzer0 (but they also federate with hexbear).
The next step should be hosts migrating to piefed or kbin and app devs dropping lemmy support, the first one is already happening in some instances, the later one not yet.I see… Yikes. I know nothing about those other projects and I’ll look them up, but are they forks of Lemmy handled by different people, or just front ends TO Lemmy? Apologies if I’m missing something obvious.
I think what you got mixed up is the software side and moderation. You can use the same software as .ml and have nothing to do with it. It’s called instance and there are many. This isn’t just front end. There are different front ends (apps, web, …) as well but that’s a different story.
You are on pawb.social as you most certainly already know. That’s hosted and handled by different people than .ml. It’s just the same software and the software isn’t the problem And since the software is free, no one profits from it. As an instance, it can choose to federate with .ml and even if (as my instance does, don’t know about yours), there is no guilt by association in my opinion. Being federated means you can see their content and they see yours but yours is moderated by your mods alone.
So they technically aren’t forks since the software is the same but they are still handled by different people because they are exact copies software side. I hope that makes it clearer.
Sorry I’m only getting back to this now, but thank you! I do understand instances and whatnot, but I guess my question boils down to this: if the whole of Lemmy somehow gets influenced by the shitty views of some or all of the devs (I’m not sure how many there are), and a fork is needed, does that bring down all of the instances and existing infrastructure of Lemmy with it? Like, the existing instances won’t be able to upgrade to the latest version, and then if they use the fork instead, will that screw with other things? I guess this is a question for a programmer, but it’s on my mind lol
Should there not be a fork at this rate?
So wait, is this another hub for Lemmy’s servers? How is this different then just accessing Lemmy through a third party app? Is this a totally different platform despite accessing the same servers? I’m a bit confused.
Not really - while it is part of the Fediverse, it is not Lemmy. In that sense it’s closer to mastodon or pixelfed than a different client, with the key difference being that since the structure/interface are so similar, they’re much more easily integrated with each other, so most likely have already interacted with a lost or comment from a Piefed user on a Lemmy community without even noticing :) Different Lemmy clients still connect you to the same servers and accounts, while Piefed’s are completely separate - although several Lemmy servers are running their own instance of Piefed too, on a different domain. So, you “access the same servers” in the sense of posts, comments, votes, and potentially server hardware, but not for your account and server software
Gotcha, I think that makes sense. I don’t know much about Piefed, but hey, if it works it works. I prefer Lemmy anyway because it is integrated like that.
