That’s very true, we never believed in Christmas/religion but never spoiled/ruined it for others, it was their enjoyment.
Granted when we have a kid, we don’t think we’ll be telling them that “Santa is just a famous character of Christmas, and some people have fun believing he’s real, so don’t ruin their fun either” or something like that. Still have plenty of years to think of how to word it better lol :P
I never got the talk about Santa. I think my parents just assumed that I was intelligent enough to be able to work it out on my own, which I was. I’m sure at some point I did believe in Santa but I can’t remember ever believing, I knew it was just my dad, but I got presents so I didn’t care.
Something to consider: do you want to normalize lying to your kid? I realize that’s an antagonistic way to phrase it, but that’s pretty much what’s happening
This is such a boring thing that people say all the time.
Lying is normal. You should be lying. Lying isn’t morally wrong if it is not done for morally wrong reasons. My child should be lying to me. I should be lying to my child.
And my children will understand the difference between lying to e.g. prevent a surprise to be ruined and lying to avoid facing consequences.
It is such a black and white thinking. It is so boring too. I will teach my children violence because 1 day, they might need it too.
And sidenote: e.g. telling your child that they can “trust” the security or the police if they get lost in a large crowd, is a lie. But one that is true enough that the child is safer with them than alone in a crowd. Telling your child that e.g. a electrical signal is travelling from the tv station through a wire to your tv, would be a lie if there is some fiber cables somewhere between them, or a satellite connection. Yes, simplifications are lying. We will lie anyway to enable them to navigate the far too complex world and slowly learn about the real underlying complexities.
And obviously, there is a difference between making them write letters to Santa and telling them Santa brings gifts for Christmas.
Nothing in life is black and white, we do agree on that, but when our child comes to ask who should they trust, we would say: any social worker such as a police officer, fireman, medic, social worker, anyone you can find. If you can’t find anyone then go to a big store and tell them your lost or need help. Overall would make sure they remover our number or at least where we live (on a map) similar to how our dad was with us.
As for the little things, well they’re going to ask you a lot of questions!! And the joy is to help guide them to an answer, help them discover a solution, make it fun for them to learn and discover!
Do you have satellite TV/antenna? Then look up and research and read all about it with them! Show them what an satellite attena/normal attena looks like and point to the satellites above among the stars! Look up the satellites, there are public maps, make a weekend trip to the local science center/museum and they might even have a satellite on display, or better yet more fantastic things for them to ask questions!
If you have wired tv, the same process! Talk about how light works and how we found ways to make glass send signals! How those signals are sent and more and more! They’ll get more and more curious about the world and its wonders and want to learn more and more about it!
Shrugging it off and giving an half assed answer imo isn’t lying, it’s neglecting the question and their curiosity. We want our child to ask as many questions- more than we can answer!! Make them curious to their fingertips and go to the library with us and read all the books they can ever want. Grow up curious hungry for answers, and show them how wonderful our world is!
I agree with you. My point is simply that I will “lie” to them in some ways. I have to lie to them that social workers are “safe” to help them to find us while knowing that dangerous people would seek out these jobs. And I will have to make it seem safer as it is because a young child is unable to understand the concept of likelihood. And I want them to start talking to a stranger (e.g. the policeman), they need the confidence that it is safe.
Eventually, they will understand that we are simplying things when we taught them about the world.
In both cases, I don’t think a child will feel like we were lying them. Just like I didn’t feel lied to.
“Normalizing lying” is just a silly critic.
I am opposed to making them write Santa a letter or making them “meet” Santa. As i think there is a difference between
telling them about the concept
letting them watch a christmas movies
maybe telling them that Santa comes when they go to bed
And making them interact with “santa”.
That is my line. I am not saying, it is better or worse than yours or theirs. But that discussion is on a different level than “Normalizing lying”.
What argument? You parroted an question. That you think you made an argument, highlights that you parroted the question. Even if you want to understand the question as an argument, a basic inspection of the implied premise that lying is bad, is enough to dismiss the argument as lazy and surface-level.
If you don’t like it when people call your output boring, say something worthwhile.
Granted when we have a kid, we don’t think we’ll be telling them that “Santa is just a famous character of Christmas, and some people have fun believing he’s real, so don’t ruin their fun either”
Sorry if I’m misreading this, but personally I don’t see a problem in telling your own kids that Santa isn’t real.
You can still give gifts if you want, and having them be addressed from people you care about makes it more meaningful tbh. Plus, it’s kinda fucked up to normalize lying to your kids
Yes, we also fund it very fucked up to lie to a kid about how some random ass guy is stalking your every move to determine if your a good or bad person and thats the determination if having presents or nothing at all.
However, its not our place to tell other parent’s kids that Santa isn’t real, and telling our kid its just a popular character would be not only the truth but also easier for them to explain. Like a mascot of some sort yk?
I get it, I too had an angsty teenage atheist phase (minus the abuse and arson), took a while and the folks just stopped trying to get me up for church. This is why most religions have a “coming of age” event where you are recognized as an adult and choose to stay with the group. I would guess most parents dont know how to react when their kid makes that decision for themselves before then…
Anon blames Atheism for being a pos
Very anon of him, tbf
That’s very true, we never believed in Christmas/religion but never spoiled/ruined it for others, it was their enjoyment.
Granted when we have a kid, we don’t think we’ll be telling them that “Santa is just a famous character of Christmas, and some people have fun believing he’s real, so don’t ruin their fun either” or something like that. Still have plenty of years to think of how to word it better lol :P
I never got the talk about Santa. I think my parents just assumed that I was intelligent enough to be able to work it out on my own, which I was. I’m sure at some point I did believe in Santa but I can’t remember ever believing, I knew it was just my dad, but I got presents so I didn’t care.
Kids can be quite pragmatic.
Fair, our parents kinda pushed us to believe, but we never believed it in the first place.
Honestly, I think i will “lie” about Santa. Simply because it doesn’t really matter and it is fun for them.
Yeah, its pretty obvious peoppe are lying anout Santa once you realize the North Pole has no land.
Santa clearly is from the South Pole.
Pretty genius actually, getting people to look for him on the opposite side of the planet.
TIL the north pole has no land
It doesn’t have land, but it does have ice. People have walked to it from Canada.
Something to consider: do you want to normalize lying to your kid? I realize that’s an antagonistic way to phrase it, but that’s pretty much what’s happening
This is such a boring thing that people say all the time.
Lying is normal. You should be lying. Lying isn’t morally wrong if it is not done for morally wrong reasons. My child should be lying to me. I should be lying to my child.
And my children will understand the difference between lying to e.g. prevent a surprise to be ruined and lying to avoid facing consequences.
It is such a black and white thinking. It is so boring too. I will teach my children violence because 1 day, they might need it too.
And sidenote: e.g. telling your child that they can “trust” the security or the police if they get lost in a large crowd, is a lie. But one that is true enough that the child is safer with them than alone in a crowd. Telling your child that e.g. a electrical signal is travelling from the tv station through a wire to your tv, would be a lie if there is some fiber cables somewhere between them, or a satellite connection. Yes, simplifications are lying. We will lie anyway to enable them to navigate the far too complex world and slowly learn about the real underlying complexities.
And obviously, there is a difference between making them write letters to Santa and telling them Santa brings gifts for Christmas.
Nothing in life is black and white, we do agree on that, but when our child comes to ask who should they trust, we would say: any social worker such as a police officer, fireman, medic, social worker, anyone you can find. If you can’t find anyone then go to a big store and tell them your lost or need help. Overall would make sure they remover our number or at least where we live (on a map) similar to how our dad was with us.
As for the little things, well they’re going to ask you a lot of questions!! And the joy is to help guide them to an answer, help them discover a solution, make it fun for them to learn and discover!
Do you have satellite TV/antenna? Then look up and research and read all about it with them! Show them what an satellite attena/normal attena looks like and point to the satellites above among the stars! Look up the satellites, there are public maps, make a weekend trip to the local science center/museum and they might even have a satellite on display, or better yet more fantastic things for them to ask questions!
If you have wired tv, the same process! Talk about how light works and how we found ways to make glass send signals! How those signals are sent and more and more! They’ll get more and more curious about the world and its wonders and want to learn more and more about it!
Shrugging it off and giving an half assed answer imo isn’t lying, it’s neglecting the question and their curiosity. We want our child to ask as many questions- more than we can answer!! Make them curious to their fingertips and go to the library with us and read all the books they can ever want. Grow up curious hungry for answers, and show them how wonderful our world is!
I agree with you. My point is simply that I will “lie” to them in some ways. I have to lie to them that social workers are “safe” to help them to find us while knowing that dangerous people would seek out these jobs. And I will have to make it seem safer as it is because a young child is unable to understand the concept of likelihood. And I want them to start talking to a stranger (e.g. the policeman), they need the confidence that it is safe.
Eventually, they will understand that we are simplying things when we taught them about the world.
In both cases, I don’t think a child will feel like we were lying them. Just like I didn’t feel lied to.
“Normalizing lying” is just a silly critic.
I am opposed to making them write Santa a letter or making them “meet” Santa. As i think there is a difference between
And making them interact with “santa”.
That is my line. I am not saying, it is better or worse than yours or theirs. But that discussion is on a different level than “Normalizing lying”.
What a boring response to an argument.
What argument? You parroted an question. That you think you made an argument, highlights that you parroted the question. Even if you want to understand the question as an argument, a basic inspection of the implied premise that lying is bad, is enough to dismiss the argument as lazy and surface-level.
If you don’t like it when people call your output boring, say something worthwhile.
Sorry if I’m misreading this, but personally I don’t see a problem in telling your own kids that Santa isn’t real.
You can still give gifts if you want, and having them be addressed from people you care about makes it more meaningful tbh. Plus, it’s kinda fucked up to normalize lying to your kids
I grew up very poor. My mother made it clear that Santa wasn’t real, because there’s no way she’s giving another old white man undue credit.
Yes, we also fund it very fucked up to lie to a kid about how some random ass guy is stalking your every move to determine if your a good or bad person and thats the determination if having presents or nothing at all.
However, its not our place to tell other parent’s kids that Santa isn’t real, and telling our kid its just a popular character would be not only the truth but also easier for them to explain. Like a mascot of some sort yk?
I don’t think it was so much about religion or ruining it for others.
Yeah, more than likely a very religious/abusive household.
To their credit, they’re well aware they were being a turd.
I get it, I too had an angsty teenage atheist phase (minus the abuse and arson), took a while and the folks just stopped trying to get me up for church. This is why most religions have a “coming of age” event where you are recognized as an adult and choose to stay with the group. I would guess most parents dont know how to react when their kid makes that decision for themselves before then…