(Age 40, male, 260 pounds, lifting diligently for just under a year)
For background, here is my post 23 days ago where I struggled to find a single tricep exercise that successfully targeted my tricep muscles. Thankfully I got good answers and played around at ridiculously light weights at high volume focusing on form and “flexing” my tricep during every rep especially during lockout to help my brain learn how to recruit tricep motor units. As a result, the most successful tricep exercise that “works” for me and isn’t constrained by my limitations is assisted dips while keeping the body upright.
This makes me feel very fortunate because many fitness youtubers (Jeff Nippard and 2-3 others) argue that dips are arguably the best single tricep exercise followed closely by overhead cable tricep extensions, which I still struggle with but is a top priority that I’m focusing on for the next 3-4 weeks incorporating into my push day. The only other tricep exercise I feel I’m able to perform correctly and with acceptable form and good tricep targeting is the Close-Grip (slightly Incline) Bench Press however I struggle immensely with my elbows wanting to flare out and I have difficulty keeping them tucked in, especially my ~5% weaker left side elbow which brings me to my next question.
##Question #2
If I can’t do more than 6-7 good reps in clean form (with about 4-6 more in shoddy form) of the Close-Grip bench press, does this mean I need to lower the weight until I can do 12 reps in good form? Or does it mean I need to stop when my form gets bad after the 7th rep and compensate by doing more volume by doing more sets? My goal is functional tricep strength and/or hypertrophy but I would slightly prefer strength by a tiny margin. (as an aside, ai says 30-45 degree elbow flare is fine apparently?)
Primary question (in title): What does it mean if I can perform 25% more reps on my 2nd working set of tricep exercises than my 1st working set of the same weight? And does it mean I’m failing my warmup sets or something else? My typical warmup routine is 5 minutes on treadmill at 3mph or 4.8kmh, 2 minutes of “elbow circles” (due to some men having proclivity for elbow pain when working triceps), and 1 warmup set of 40% - 50% weight of my working set for about 10 reps.
It sounds like your stabilizers are fatiguing faster than your big muscles, which is normal. I vote you switch to reverse pyramids, rather than flat sets.
Zeroeth set 2 reps at 80% of your first working set (more or less - no need to break out the microplates)
First set 3-5 reps - the powerlifting rep range. This is your heavy set, and will train neuromuscular adaptation more than hypertrophy. Keep one or two reps left in the tank, which will allow you to focus on form and not blow your load early in the workout.
Second set 6-8 reps. Focus on form, and again, keep one or two reps left in the tank.
Third set 8-12 reps - the bodybuilding rep range. This is your volume set, and will push you close to muscular failure. Go a little al muerte here. If your form breaks down a little here, I think that is fine, as that means you are effectively targeting and taxing your stabilizer muscles, and they will get stronger over time.
As for form/elbow flare… I think AI got caught up thinking of normal bench, where a 45° elbow flare is pretty standard. Close grip, to my knowledge, should keep the elbows tucked to your sides. So on one hand, I would say to keep your elbows tucked, as that is the exercise you are doing. But on the other hand, I don’t want to recommend being a form weenie - just get the weight up, and as long as you don’t look like a boa constrictor getting murdered, it’s fine. But giving recommendations here is kind of an art, since close grip bench is an exercise that, itself, splits the difference between bodybuilding and powerlifting. You are neither trying to lift maximum weight (like bench), nor trying to isolate a muscle (like a tricep extension)… My rec is that a little elbow flare is fine as you get a bit fatigued, but in general try to avoid
There isn’t really a single standard for how to perform a close grip bench, which is probably why AI is telling OP that some elbow flare is fine. What a typical powerlifter considers “close grip bench” is probably what a typical body builder calls a regular bench press.
Great post and I appreciate your response. In the future though (for other exercises), what detail from my post gave you the biggest indication that my stabilizer muscles are fatiguing faster than the intended big muscles? Was it the higher rep count on set 2 than set 1 of my working sets? Or was it that I’m only on my 3rd week of practicing my dedicated tricep exercises?