Sounds hot
Alternate take: romans are really really easily lead about by the penis
who are these “historians”? does that word mean different things in different places?
And what about herstorians? Did they die off in some accident?
Is the meme suggesting those things aren’t sexy?
It’s suggesting she has value beyond that
But she was se-
Anyway, to be serious, they would be gross by our modern standards, I think.
And she used the tools she had at her disposal, she was pretty badass but, it’s all about armies and politics.
Unfortunately, sometimes that might require other tools of persuasion.
Competency and collectedness are incredibly sexy.
whatever gets people to pay for their documentary
That is not what historians say at all. That is what US “documentaries” says, and Hollywood, but historians have never said that.
I don’t think I’ve ever read the word ‘sexy’ in my entire curriculum.
It’s also been the pop cultural understanding of her since Virgil.
Mainly because it wasn’t historically accurate*
Yeah but have you considered the what type of golden pussy got both Julius Ceasar and Mark Anthony hooked?
Caesar was a notorious philanderer who more or less had his pick of women wherever he went. His affair with Cleopatra, however, was unusually enduring and powerful. I doubt she fucked better than every noblewoman and prostitute in Rome (which, considering Caesar’s reputation, he may very well have all tried). More likely is the combination of circumstance and Cleopatra’s own sophisticated and educated outlook.
Caesar was, famously, a great appreciator of the humanities, with even noted enemies like Cicero praising his genuine love of literature and intellectual pursuits, and he had a vast collection of art from across the world, even before he met Cleopatra. Roman society, especially during the Mid and Late Republic, could be a bit… ambivalent about artistic interests like that. On one hand, civilization - Romans very much appreciated the work of specialist skills and knowledge. On the other hand, shouldn’t you be doing something PRACTICAL, senator?
But Cleopatra is not only Graeco-Egyptian (the Ptolemies were mostly Greek, but Cleopatra took great efforts to identify herself with the Egyptian people, including being the first Ptolemaic ruler to actually fucking speak Egyptian), which means she has a somewhat… broader-minded view of art, but also a queen. She is used to being able to enjoy and appreciate refined things. On top of that, she was quite famously cultured even by the standards of royalty, and intelligent.
Caesar was in his early 50s at the time, but had only just started going bald. Caesar, who was famously handsome and vain, did not take this well. So this guy who has spent most of his life surrounded by UTTER PHILISTINES, or at least men who largely do not appreciate art on the same level he does, meets a young, beautiful, powerful woman who is (apparently) deeply interested in him and shares his interests on a similar level, and at a time in his life when he’s beginning to feel the weight of age. Maybe it should be no surprise that he took to her exceptionally well, but it’s definitely more than just being good in the sack!
One that commands armies in nine languages?
Tongue game you say, interesting…
I know that’s not the point, but a women than speaks nine languages and is powerful and independent is what my wet dreams are made from.
Don’t forget incredibly inbred 😍
Natalie Portman is damn close to perfect
That’s suspected to be part of why she was seen as so sexy. Rather than just being some conventionally hot chick, she was incredibly smart, cunning, charismatic, fun, and powerful. Julius Caesar and Mark Antony both seemed to see her as a kindred spirit and found her power and intelligence attractive.
And I find that too to be quite interesting because Rome of this time was a time and place of fairly strong cultural misogyny when it came to women in power. And yet two of the most powerful men in Rome of the time clearly were more than fine with her being powerful.
That’s suspected to be part of why she was seen as so sexy. Rather than just being some conventionally hot chick, she was incredibly smart, cunning, charismatic, fun, and powerful. Julius Caesar and Mark Antony both seemed to see her as a kindred spirit and found her power and intelligence attractive.
“Mark Antony”
“Kindred spirit”
Caesar was definitely cultured af, and his attraction to Cleopatra was definitely predicated at least in part by the fact that she was an extremely well-educated and cultured woman… but Mark Antony was acknowledged by everyone as… cut from cruder cloth, shall we say? He was famously athletic and handsome, and a partyboy, though.
Caesar-Cleopatra = Power Couple
Antony-Cleopatra = Himbo and Girlboss :p
And I find that too to be quite interesting because Rome of this time was a time and place of fairly strong cultural misogyny when it came to women in power. And yet two of the most powerful men in Rome of the time clearly were more than fine with her being powerful.
Funny enough, cultural chauvinism might be a factor here over gender chauvinism. The Romans didn’t mind other peoples being ruled by women, just like they didn’t mind other peoples being ruled by monarchs. It was only ROMANS who were NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, to be ruled by women OR monarchs!
At several points in Rome’s history, they back or even install female monarchs to rule over non-Romans when the female monarch is the choice best suited to Roman interests.
Of course, Romans also struggled with their own misogyny to some degree - I’m reminded of the jurist Gaius, a fairly conservative legal writer, musing that there was no actual, practical reason for laws restricting women’s legal rights in the non-political sphere, as women were manifestly intellectual equals. On the other hand, there are other Roman jurists in the same period who squawked that it was RIGHT and NATURAL for women to have reduced rights because they WEREN’T intellectual equals.
All societies, I suppose, struggle with their own prejudices. It’s always interesting when you see it, though.
You are part of why lemmy is great.
Just trying to do my part for the Fediverse! o7
Wait till you hear she was also hot
Tbf also women that are more akin to tators are also very dreamy
What’s tators, precious?
‘Po-ta-toes, The Gaffer’s delight, and rare good ballast for an empty belly. But you won’t find any, so you needn’t look. But be good Sméagol and fetch me some herbs, and I’ll think better of you. What’s more, if you turn over a new leaf, and keep it turned, I’ll cook you some taters one of these days. I will: fried fish and chips served by S. Gamgee. You couldn’t say no to that.’
I needed to see a Sam Gamgee quote in the wild today. Thank you.
I can’t for the life of me have any inkling of what you’re trying to say.
Factual historians : and she wasn’t even that sexy
I don’t know… intelligent, powerful women are kinda sexy…
I think someone is confusing Hollywood with historians, which is unsurprising in the anglosphere…
“Historians.”
Powerful women are very sexy
What are your thoughts on Margaret Thatcher?
Powerful Woman and Morally Sound Leader are two rings on a Venn diagram. Margaret Thatcher was a powerful woman, but she was also an Irish-hating piece of shit tyrant who shouldn’t have had the privilege of dying of old age.
Also in a society in which few women lead, the ones who do tend to be particularly ruthless.
Historians: “No not like that”
Why wouldn’t a historian think a capable multilingual strategist and leader (who took a great interest in the health and welfare of her people including supporting citizens of disparate faiths and cultures) was sexy? How is any of that not sexy?
She can be both. In fact, I think it makes her even sexier knowing she was such a singularly competent and effective head of state.
