Ok do you understand how that actually works for the bank? I’m not questioning the end user impact lmao, I’m telling you what happens to the bank itself, please explain to me how if someone uses your stolen card to get cash before the fraud is noticed the bank magically gets that cash bank from the one who stole it.
The answer is, they don’t, they have insurance and such and make you whole that way.
It can’t be done with crypto because you are transferring direct. You would need someone in between in which case you have reinvented banking.
You don’t actually, there could be a fund paid for via taxes or similar to aide people who’ve been scammed/defrauded while the criminal activity is investigated and punished by authorities, just like right now with traditional currencies.
I’m getting the impression you aren’t in the US or British and don’t speak English natively.
I’m from Texas, I am a licensed financial professional lmao. There is literally a difference in practice between a scam and fraud.
Fraud is an umbrella term, scams fall inside it. So I’m being pedantic and pointing out the differences in behavior between a generic fraud (such as your identity stolen or using your card pretending to be you in other examples) and scamming (things like ICO rugpulls, midnight infomercial jewelry, I’d argue “mystics” and megachurches)
Edit: To your point tho, it does still fall into the fraud category, but it helps to be more clear about what specific bad behaviors are being done to properly identify potential solutions IMO.
Their internal mechanisms and work with police work is irrelevant to me as a consumer. It is therefore irrelevant for you to bring it up.
You are arguing that a new car warranty doesn’t exist because a dealership has to pay a mechanic to fix the defective car they sold. You are ridiculous.
I’m from Texas, I am a licensed financial professional
Then you god damn know the actual definition of fraud not your silly redefinition.
yes it’s actually important to understand how money moves
I claimed credit cards protect consumers. You countered with "For example we know things like card skimmers " Once I explained that consumers are still protected you tried to make it about the process of a credit card company recovering their money which has fuck all to do with consumer protection. You invented a personal definition for fraud not because you don’t speak English but because your claim that crypto protects against fraud was bad.
The fact that you can still have your money stolen with a credit card easily was my point. You then didn’t care about the actual process to recover when that occurs because “all that matters is the consumer experience” but we’re literally talking about a potential currency alternative so the process/method is extremely relevant.
I didn’t invent a personal definition of fraud, I tried to clarify when and why it is helpful to use the more specific term scamming as opposed to generalized fraud, because again we’re discussing the problems in crypto currency that need to be addressed in order to replace the fraud protections that have been developed over time through the banking system.
I’m arguing in good faith, you simply don’t care to see my points and disregard anything you don’t like lmfao.
If you get scammed into buying something that isn’t as advertised, the bank isn’t going to refund you automatically, it becomes a legal situation. If you have been defrauded and had your card information stolen and used for ourchases you didn’t make, then the bank will do something about it.
Again this is why I’m being specific about the two terms. People buying into garbage altcoins are being scammed, they’re not being literally defrauded in the same way. I don’t see how you could disagree with that assessment.
Edit: Let’s talk NFTs, I would say people were scammed into buying them for crazy inflated prices, but that’s not legally fraud because they did get what they paid for, they just believed hype or wanted to try and make a quick buck or whatever. They would not likely get their money back even if they paid for the NFT with their credit card because it’s not actual fraud.
but we’re literally talking about a potential currency alternative so the process/method is extremely relevant.
You are holding up an imaginary system (crypto with all the safety of a credit card) against the existing credit card. We weren’t discussing potential ways crypto could be fixed. As crypto exists today it is not immune to fraud as you claimed.
The fraud part I was discussing is specifically that criminals or even central authorities can’t create additional supply (think printing cash) because they can only be created through the mechanism of the crypto itself. Things like bank runs or runaway inflation due to poor govt policy. I didn’t mean scams weren’t possible, I guess I apologize for not being more clear, but I figured because we specifically talked about bank runs and supply that you understood what I was talking about.
It would be insane to say crypto prevents all forms of fraud, so I didn’t think it’d be taken that way. But you don’t know me so I shouldn’t make those assumptions when talking to randos online lol.
Ok do you understand how that actually works for the bank? I’m not questioning the end user impact lmao, I’m telling you what happens to the bank itself, please explain to me how if someone uses your stolen card to get cash before the fraud is noticed the bank magically gets that cash bank from the one who stole it.
The answer is, they don’t, they have insurance and such and make you whole that way.
You don’t actually, there could be a fund paid for via taxes or similar to aide people who’ve been scammed/defrauded while the criminal activity is investigated and punished by authorities, just like right now with traditional currencies.
I’m from Texas, I am a licensed financial professional lmao. There is literally a difference in practice between a scam and fraud.
Fraud is an umbrella term, scams fall inside it. So I’m being pedantic and pointing out the differences in behavior between a generic fraud (such as your identity stolen or using your card pretending to be you in other examples) and scamming (things like ICO rugpulls, midnight infomercial jewelry, I’d argue “mystics” and megachurches)
Edit: To your point tho, it does still fall into the fraud category, but it helps to be more clear about what specific bad behaviors are being done to properly identify potential solutions IMO.
Their internal mechanisms and work with police work is irrelevant to me as a consumer. It is therefore irrelevant for you to bring it up.
You are arguing that a new car warranty doesn’t exist because a dealership has to pay a mechanic to fix the defective car they sold. You are ridiculous.
Then you god damn know the actual definition of fraud not your silly redefinition.
Gtfo.
Lol k, yes it’s actually important to understand how money moves around when talking about a potential replacement.
I claimed credit cards protect consumers. You countered with "For example we know things like card skimmers " Once I explained that consumers are still protected you tried to make it about the process of a credit card company recovering their money which has fuck all to do with consumer protection. You invented a personal definition for fraud not because you don’t speak English but because your claim that crypto protects against fraud was bad.
You are not arguing in good faith.
The fact that you can still have your money stolen with a credit card easily was my point. You then didn’t care about the actual process to recover when that occurs because “all that matters is the consumer experience” but we’re literally talking about a potential currency alternative so the process/method is extremely relevant.
I didn’t invent a personal definition of fraud, I tried to clarify when and why it is helpful to use the more specific term scamming as opposed to generalized fraud, because again we’re discussing the problems in crypto currency that need to be addressed in order to replace the fraud protections that have been developed over time through the banking system.
I’m arguing in good faith, you simply don’t care to see my points and disregard anything you don’t like lmfao.
If you get scammed into buying something that isn’t as advertised, the bank isn’t going to refund you automatically, it becomes a legal situation. If you have been defrauded and had your card information stolen and used for ourchases you didn’t make, then the bank will do something about it.
Again this is why I’m being specific about the two terms. People buying into garbage altcoins are being scammed, they’re not being literally defrauded in the same way. I don’t see how you could disagree with that assessment.
Edit: Let’s talk NFTs, I would say people were scammed into buying them for crazy inflated prices, but that’s not legally fraud because they did get what they paid for, they just believed hype or wanted to try and make a quick buck or whatever. They would not likely get their money back even if they paid for the NFT with their credit card because it’s not actual fraud.
Can we at least agree on that?
You are holding up an imaginary system (crypto with all the safety of a credit card) against the existing credit card. We weren’t discussing potential ways crypto could be fixed. As crypto exists today it is not immune to fraud as you claimed.
The fraud part I was discussing is specifically that criminals or even central authorities can’t create additional supply (think printing cash) because they can only be created through the mechanism of the crypto itself. Things like bank runs or runaway inflation due to poor govt policy. I didn’t mean scams weren’t possible, I guess I apologize for not being more clear, but I figured because we specifically talked about bank runs and supply that you understood what I was talking about.
It would be insane to say crypto prevents all forms of fraud, so I didn’t think it’d be taken that way. But you don’t know me so I shouldn’t make those assumptions when talking to randos online lol.