Edit: I made a mistake, I meant to add Mailfence instead of Fastmail, but forgot to update both the icon and text
Hey everyone, here’s a follow up to my previous post, I tried to summarize all your suggestions and these are the options I have for the main Proton products I’ve been using.
I removed Bitwarden based on your feedback (basically they’re enshittifying).
I’m not including Tuta, because I dislike their UX/UI, also they seem to not apply their LLM policy to their own devs.
I’m not including Mullvlad, because of one of the founder’s donation to a far right political party in Sweden, said founder has a blog post to justify this, which links to another blog post where he claims to be a libertarian anarchist which is just another word for Ancaps which is a dealbreaker for me.
A lot of people recommended using one’s own domain for email stuff, I forgot to mention I do have a custom domain, which will make migrating a lot easier indeed. Just need to update my accounts credentials.
Let me know what you think!
I missed the news - what’s wrong with the proton?
You did not include the “office”/“collaboration” section, if you plan to, i suggest CryptPad
@inlandempire@jlai.lu , I said I’d write about bitwarden and here I am. Trollaccount69: promises made, promises kept.
Bitwarden is good. People saying it’s bad are either mistaken from not reading news reports closely enough, completely unwilling to accept a company as opposed to a small open source project or don’t consider cloud services worthwhile when they could be self hosted.
I’ll start with the last one first.
I self host a lot of stuff. Many people have a little computer in the closet, some have mini racks, a few have full size frac racks. I have two full size racks in different physical locations separated by miles. The point of saying that is not to brag or flaunt undiagnosed mental illness but to make it 100% clear that I am not opposed to self hosting by any measure.
A few years ago I was in a natural disaster. It wasn’t predictable or common and while some of the conditions that precipitated it had a generous parry window the effects were outsized and still linger to this day.
My local server was rendered inoperable and my offsite was damaged beyond recovery. Conditions in the area prevented consistent access to the internet so my cloud backup was not an option. Afterwards I did not have power or Internet at either my home or offsite location for two weeks. Even in the case that I did, my focus was on keeping my family warm, fed and housed.
The experience immediately afterwards had a lot of what might get called second factors or one time tokens or just shit you gotta write down and every group involved wanted to mediate the process through their website or some other computer system not least of which is the us federal governments now monolothic login.gov (what a fucking name).
Maybe you see where I’m going with this.
If it weren’t for bitwardens ability to access secrets securely through a web browser on an untrusted computer I would have had a much different experience toting handwritten copies of important logins, passwords, tokens, codes and even just notes to remember in sweat soaked waterlogged pockets.
Bitwarden isn’t the only cloud password thingy that has that functionality but it’s the one with the longest history of dudes popping up to “well actually” out the way their website access works when someone says “browser? That’s not secure!”. So I’m not gonna waste your time with that. It is secure and you can do your own research and come to that conclusion yourself.
The point of writing all that is you probably would be what a disgusting race of people with bad teeth from an overcast island in the North Atlantic would describe as “proper fucked” in their nasty, brutish imitation of the English language if you couldn’t get to your selfhosted passwords. Imagine if that coincided with a bonafide cortisol experience.
Cloud services can be described as a lot of things. A safety net against local disruptions is part of that.
Alright working backwards from that mess, it’s fine to be skeptical of companies but they do represent stores of expertise and often act as the benevolent supporters of open source projects either through a direct relationship like Bitwarden, keeping the maintainers of an open source project employed so they can continue working on the project (often as part of their job responsibilities) like Bitwarden or even just using the profits to prop up the free side uh, like Bitwarden.
Off the dome, and I will not be looking this shit up, the first thing comes from people seeing some small indicator and freaking the fuck out. Recently it’s a change to an acronym that describes the companies values. Literally come on. Red hat is basically the IG Farben of open source but no one is fleeing the Linux kernel because of their involvement. Another recent freak out came from a new ceo who took on venture capital. The company intends to broaden its user base and provide its service as a trusted third party in an increasingly fractured world, that takes capital and the part no one seems to be willing to hand to ceos, leadership. There have not been tangible changes to bitwardens free service as a result of these events.
My favorite Bitwarden freak out is the tos data collection one. Someone posted the terms of service and highlighted that user data could be collected and used. Now that’s something! Wait, it was the terms of service of the website, not the service (an important legal shield in some jurisdictions) and was just boilerplate. There was no evidence ever provided that Bitwarden collected user data in any way other than that which is part of rendering a web page (how big is the viewport, what protocols do you support etc.).
If you take anything away from this, hell, if you even read down to the bottom and see this sentence: don’t discount cloud password vaults, you may end up relying on them during a trying time.
You’re a legend for delivering, I can’t read it all right now but I’ll find a moment tomorrow (Sunday), thank you for taking the time to share your toughts!!
replace KeePassXC with ChiPass, which is a fork without AI
Migadu supports custom domains is one of the few email providers that does not limit the number of domains, aliases or mailboxes. Instead their pricing is based on storage and the number of emails received and sent.
I’m going to give Mozilla’s new mail service a try next weekend. I think it’s called thundermail or thinderbirdmail.
I can’t switch again, for the love of god(s) I’m old and tired.
Would you consider NymVPN? I’ve been using it for a few months now and it’s pretty good. It’s backed by PhD level Cryptography and it’s open source but the parent company is still for-profit. I think it’s an actual good use of blockchain too. Also it’s decentralised! Fedi should love it but I never see it mentioned.
Is there port forwarding? I noticed they mentioned split tunneling
will add it to my list, thanks for the suggestion!
Why are you using the GOP logo? This isn’t an American-centric issue.
Just put a Swastika. That’s what he apparently stands for now.
What’s the thing with ChiPass vs KeepassXC?
No idea, but the chip ass (this was autocorrected but I’ll leave it :D) repo seems like a clone of KeepassXC…
They’re porting KeePassXC to Qt6 and banning LLM usage.
https://codeberg.org/ChiPassor maybe leave all the passwords in the cloud of the mozilla?
KeepassXC
ChiPass I installed (flatpack) but how to export all passwords from firefox and import into ChiPass?
So, guys, I’ve had a pretty great experience with GMail, from a small company… they index the Internet, whatever that means. Anyway, the sign up is free and and I don’t have to bring a domain… again, not sure what that means, but it sounds nice.
It sounds perfect, I sure hope they’re not evil or something

It’s funny you should mention that, because they go out of their way to specifically say that they aren’t!
I always felt it was just a company telling me to not be evil. Rules for thee not for me, if you will.
I believe 'em. Especially after they bought a co called “doubleclick”. Not sure what that is, but they probably invented double clicking with my mouse buttons. Or sth like that. No way an evil co would be giving us stuff like that.
“Don’t be evil” seems like an aspirational sentiment rather than a reflective one. Like an addict writing “don’t do drugs” on their todo list.
Guess they should have aspired harder.
Also, the storage they offer increases constantly in real time. There is a counter on their page if you wanna check.
i had enough struggle to convince my friends to switch away from google, im sure as hell not getting them to switch again. especially not when i am the one paying for the family subscription
I think it’s fine. Proton is still better than big tech. I want to move away from Proton for myself but that’s because I am not tied to an address (custom domain) and am happy to do the switch. I would still encourage Proton over big tech for regular people. We do the best we can do.
I’m confused… If you’re the one paying for it, why do you need to convince them of anything? They can come along or pay for their own services.
it was unfortunately worded. the reason they switched at all is because im paying. if i stop paxing they will just switch back
That’s their prerogative.
I recently made a post asking for email providers, and no one has yet mentioned Mailfence, I hadn’t heard of it until seeing this post. What are people’s thoughts on it?
I posted about it in another recent thread. Long time user and I am happy. But I only use some features despite paying. They historically had free accounts, too, but unsure what they offer now.
They still have free accounts. I tried to sign up, to do so I needed to enter a backup email. I used a simplelogin one and now I’m blocked and have to wait 24 hours to try again 🤦
Interesting! I tried creating a new account with my mailfence email and it just told me no. There was a point where I experienced places balking at me using that domain, perhaps they have had to tighten up registration.
Oh also it kept telling me my selected username was invalid, while giving no indication as to why. In the end I think it was because it had the word “host” in it (actually, it was “ghost”, but apparently they don’t allow “host”).
I’ve tried again with a different recovery email and it still said no, please contact support. But I couldn’t find a link to contact support, only a knowledgebase, so I’m probably going to go with mailbox.org instead. I have created a trial account there without issue.
I like Infomaniak, IVPN, and Bitwarden
Fastmail while an excellent product, is in a jurisdiction with “dubious” rules. I would give Tuta a second chance. Infomaniak is also a good alternative.
Tuta is going straight against their own policies on Ai, hard disagree on that 2nd chance. You might just as well do that with Proton then.
True, why not? it was clear that the people that work at proton were competent enough to raise the issue and make it a public discussion, I wouldn’t throw them away that easily.
That’s absolutely true
That’s my mistake, I meant to add Mailfence instead of Fastmail, but forgot to update both the icon and text












