I’m planning to get an EV (when I can afford one, who on earth can afford to buy new cars??) but my biggest concern is with battery degradation - it’s improved a bunch, but you’re still looking at 80-85% capacity after 8 years with gentle use - which if the car already just barely has the range I need… nngh. It really doesn’t get talked about and it’s such a huge part of the logistics you need to consider when getting an EV.
Unless you’re travelling 200+ miles every day and assuming a 20% reduction in range after 8-10 years, most EVs start with ~225-250 miles of range, so at 80%, which is pretty much the realistic worst case scenario, that’s still around 180-200 miles of range.
Plus, they don’t need oil changes/spark plugs/coils/etc., electric is cheaper than gas per mile by usually 2-4x, they don’t need brakes or calipers hardly because of regen braking, and so much more.
I know, but thanks for taking the time to put that together.
(ah, you edited in the second paragraph - upkeep is lower yes, obviously gas is more expensive than electricity as a fuel, but afaik wear on breaks actually tends to be higher given the increased weight of EVs. This has little to do with the practical longevity of the vehicle, however.)
I just feel the need to remind people when they mention degradation as a concern, that a degraded battery after a decade doesn’t just turn into a paperweight. It just goes slightly less far.
Losing 1/5 of your range isn’t exactly a slight reduction. When the topic is “this logistical aspect is underdiscussed” downplaying its importance is somewhat unhelpful, but I do appreciate the sentiment here.
Not to mention the need at some point to replace the battery, which can cost thousands.
I don’t mention that and the depreciation bullet point to disparage EV adoption. It’s a good thing we are moving away from ICE to EV. But it’s a little like two steps forward one step back, and most people don’t talk about the one step back parts.
Batteries don’t usually just “die” though. You don’t have to even think about replacing it. Even if a 250 mile EV loses 30% of its capacity after 8-10 years (which is higher than most besides older gen Nissan Leafs), that means it can still drive 175 miles.
True what if half the year is below freezing? Now the range might be 100 miles. Still enough for most people to commute daily but could present issue if you’d driving home for Christmas. We are still in the early days of ev, and I think another leap in battery tech will make EV a no brainer. Ice cars do degrade but a well cared for ice will run 300k miles for a gasser and likely 2x for a diesel, and run for decades. I have driven 70 year old CJ3b that was in a barn for 15+ years. Drug it out, put air in tires, set points, drained + filled tank and spun the crank by hand with some oil in cyls before trying to fire. Had it putting down the road in a few hours, something to be said about those old machines!
Diesels don’t run for shit anymore. All of the DPF and EGR systems kill them after 150-200k max. Gone are the days of the 7.3L Ford or 5.9 Cummins that were bulletproof. I still drive around my gasser 7.5L in my 95 F250, but it’s a gas guzzling beast.
As for range loss on cold, that’s true for LFP batteries. Not NMC, which is what most cars use. Range loss in the winter is mostly from climate control, but unless your car is using a resistive heater, this isn’t hardly any range loss.
Well I’ve personally seen multiple 15+ Duramax with over a quarter million miles, and my co worker has a 3.0 eco diesel Cherokee with just over 200k! That’s more than impressive for a modern stellantis product lmfao. But I do get your point, their not as reliable as they used to be for sure. I work on old diesel land rovers and there’s nothing quite like a 1.9 idi rattling it’s guts out to struggle moving a glorified powered wheelbarrow lol. And all these new diesel rigs anything like 02+ is basically pull the cab off the frame for any service so ur not doing much of that shit at home unless you have a skid steer or forklift or an actual lift at ur disposal. NMC do still loose range in the cold, and coupled with the energy required to heat the cabin your certainly not getting the range you’d expect on a nice mild 55-70* day. A gas or diesel produces a lot of waste heat, which used to heat the cabin does not affect range. Ice vehicles do not sacrifice any significant range to either heat or cool the cabin, but I’m sure once we have slightly more energy dense batteries that can hold more KWH / lb we will be having a whole different conversation.
I’m planning to get an EV (when I can afford one, who on earth can afford to buy new cars??) but my biggest concern is with battery degradation - it’s improved a bunch, but you’re still looking at 80-85% capacity after 8 years with gentle use - which if the car already just barely has the range I need… nngh. It really doesn’t get talked about and it’s such a huge part of the logistics you need to consider when getting an EV.
Unless you’re travelling 200+ miles every day and assuming a 20% reduction in range after 8-10 years, most EVs start with ~225-250 miles of range, so at 80%, which is pretty much the realistic worst case scenario, that’s still around 180-200 miles of range.
Plus, they don’t need oil changes/spark plugs/coils/etc., electric is cheaper than gas per mile by usually 2-4x, they don’t need brakes or calipers hardly because of regen braking, and so much more.
I know, but thanks for taking the time to put that together.
(ah, you edited in the second paragraph - upkeep is lower yes, obviously gas is more expensive than electricity as a fuel, but afaik wear on breaks actually tends to be higher given the increased weight of EVs. This has little to do with the practical longevity of the vehicle, however.)
For sure and fair enough.
I just feel the need to remind people when they mention degradation as a concern, that a degraded battery after a decade doesn’t just turn into a paperweight. It just goes slightly less far.
Losing 1/5 of your range isn’t exactly a slight reduction. When the topic is “this logistical aspect is underdiscussed” downplaying its importance is somewhat unhelpful, but I do appreciate the sentiment here.
Not to mention the need at some point to replace the battery, which can cost thousands.
I don’t mention that and the depreciation bullet point to disparage EV adoption. It’s a good thing we are moving away from ICE to EV. But it’s a little like two steps forward one step back, and most people don’t talk about the one step back parts.
Batteries don’t usually just “die” though. You don’t have to even think about replacing it. Even if a 250 mile EV loses 30% of its capacity after 8-10 years (which is higher than most besides older gen Nissan Leafs), that means it can still drive 175 miles.
True what if half the year is below freezing? Now the range might be 100 miles. Still enough for most people to commute daily but could present issue if you’d driving home for Christmas. We are still in the early days of ev, and I think another leap in battery tech will make EV a no brainer. Ice cars do degrade but a well cared for ice will run 300k miles for a gasser and likely 2x for a diesel, and run for decades. I have driven 70 year old CJ3b that was in a barn for 15+ years. Drug it out, put air in tires, set points, drained + filled tank and spun the crank by hand with some oil in cyls before trying to fire. Had it putting down the road in a few hours, something to be said about those old machines!
Diesels don’t run for shit anymore. All of the DPF and EGR systems kill them after 150-200k max. Gone are the days of the 7.3L Ford or 5.9 Cummins that were bulletproof. I still drive around my gasser 7.5L in my 95 F250, but it’s a gas guzzling beast.
As for range loss on cold, that’s true for LFP batteries. Not NMC, which is what most cars use. Range loss in the winter is mostly from climate control, but unless your car is using a resistive heater, this isn’t hardly any range loss.
Well I’ve personally seen multiple 15+ Duramax with over a quarter million miles, and my co worker has a 3.0 eco diesel Cherokee with just over 200k! That’s more than impressive for a modern stellantis product lmfao. But I do get your point, their not as reliable as they used to be for sure. I work on old diesel land rovers and there’s nothing quite like a 1.9 idi rattling it’s guts out to struggle moving a glorified powered wheelbarrow lol. And all these new diesel rigs anything like 02+ is basically pull the cab off the frame for any service so ur not doing much of that shit at home unless you have a skid steer or forklift or an actual lift at ur disposal. NMC do still loose range in the cold, and coupled with the energy required to heat the cabin your certainly not getting the range you’d expect on a nice mild 55-70* day. A gas or diesel produces a lot of waste heat, which used to heat the cabin does not affect range. Ice vehicles do not sacrifice any significant range to either heat or cool the cabin, but I’m sure once we have slightly more energy dense batteries that can hold more KWH / lb we will be having a whole different conversation.