Pointing out how easilly Neonazis co-opted leftist rhetoric in a thread discussing how Neonazis are literally bragging about coopting leftist rhetoric is Zionism to you? Oh wow you got me, I’m right up there with the IDF: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FwFsvx1KfgA
No. Those are historical pictures of the price to be paid when you spend your life doing this
It’s ugly, it’s unsettling, it’s uncomfortable, it’s graphic. But if the subject is “lets comment and upvote how violent we want to be against the system”, while I wholeheartedly endorse that sentiment, that is what you need to be capable of because this is what they are doing with their power. Everyone needs to see what happens to the vulnerable when you use talk while the victimizers use action. Everyone needs to be reminded of what it actually looks like when you chose to fight back with action.
The internet is full of calls for violence from people who have never actually been in a situation where they inflict a life altering level of violence on another person, much less a life ending one. It’s not Hollywood and it’s not superheroes. Your enemies may have abandoned their humanity but they’re still human, and if/when you fight them, you will have to do things that are gory and unpleasant.
I don’t doubt that the victims of ICE are nearing the level of suffering we see in the death camp liberation photos. We see atrocities in Gaza on a daily basis. We know who’s behind it, we cheer the idea that their ability to do so will end, we keep psyching ourselves up to accept the reality and fight back. Great, but here’s what it looks like. Accept it or keep looking the other way while hoping someone else takes care of it and your hands are clean. They’re not, the blood of all the victims is as much on yours and mine for not accepting the terms of the brutalizers in this conflict and treating moral objection and righteous condemnation as the solution while they grind others into nothing.
I’m not saying that this part of history shouldn’t be discussed or seen. I’m saying that it’s reasonable to give people browsing Lemmy a warning before seeing dead bodies.
Y’all can continue your debate, but that first photo needs to be behind a spoiler tag before I can clear this report.
Do what you gotta do, and if that means sanitizing the misery of genocide and the consequences of fascism, on a forum the calls for death and destruction of fascism are a daily occurrence 🤷♂️
How many people are being abused and killed in ICE camps and Gaza everyday? How many more are virtue signaling on social media or a live stream while it goes on? Death and violence are easier to imagine abstractly because most people don’t encounter it every day. But it’s all around, it’s happening, they know it’s happening, they cheer for reprisal but can’t handle seeing the end result?
People are free to known but not want to see it, they’re free to look away, but fuck me, are we really at a point where the dead body of the guy who invented modern fascism is taboo? The people complaining are either fascists who don’t want to be reminded of what we do to their kind, or the left is utterly fucked because our ranks really are filled with snowflakes and bleeding-hearts who are never going to put up a fight.
I’m not here to get in the middle of your conversation, I’m just responding to a report because we have a rule about showing porn, gore, or distressing images without a nsfw or spoiler tag. This includes your comment with the dead bodies.
I understand your motivation, but the rule exists to give people a chance to consent first.
So is this really where we’re at in society? I’ve got one leftist so ill educated on history they don’t know Mussolini was killed by antifascist partisans, so insistent on opposing the death penalty they’d pardon the architects of the Holocaust, and so invested in “America is always the worst” they reject Nuremberg (which they’re also seemingly unaware was a joint effort of the US/UK/France/Soviets). Now I’ve got liberal feel good values complaining about consent over historically significant photos of how fascism was ended last time it popped up. Meanwhile, there’s an ongoing genocide, concentration camps (and probably genocide), and multiple wars of conquest, all of them under the direction of leaders that are essentially fascist level dictators. But here we are, arguing amongst ourselves over whether the people behind WW2 deserved death and consenting to be reminded of what calls for violent resistance are going to look like. That’s why I posted them, to shock and unsettle people, with or without their consent. The victims of ICE, Russia, Zionists, and the US military aren’t consenting to what is being done to them as I type this and others read it. The world is a shocking and violent place and if the worst thing to happen to you today was a picture of a dead dictator made you feel violated, jfc. The victims of people like Mussolini are getting raped by dogs and disappeared into 3rd world prisons today. What the hell are people going to do when they witness ICE or whatever comes next violently assaulting and murdering people in the streets, inform them they didn’t consent to see that? They are literally shooting children for sport in Gaza and ICE are gunning down people on a whim. Why in the actual fuck are supposed leftists arguing feelings and vibes amongst each other while the people we claim to be standing with and supporting are being annihilated by a machine we do fuck all to stop?!?
I’m not gonna simp for the US government’s right to execute people. Miss Me with that authoritarian shit. I only support murder of fascists when it’s done by anarchist vigilantes. That’s because I trust Luigi Mangione types better than I trust Harry Truman types.
Mussolini was killed by Italian partisans, literally the anarchists, socialists, and communists who spent the war fighting the fascists. I honestly don’t care how they die. Want to put ‘em down, use every resource and avenue at your disposal. Truman didn’t kill Nazis, my grandfather did. How he got to Europe doesn’t much matter to me so long as they’re dead. John C. Woods is a hero because the US government tried to give them a clean death, he made them die slowly in agony. Luigi didn’t do it, he was at my house cross-country. Whoever did though… keep up the good fight.
I care who kills fascists because I don’t think the government should have the power to kill people. The government will become corrupt if you give it that power. Instead of empowering the state, we should be dismantling it.
You want the morality of in the moment life or death decisions being morally justifiable and clean cut good guy/bad guy. That’s not how death dealing works. Start the slaughter and the innocent are going to get caught in the crossfire. It’s not just middle aged white men you’re going to face, you’re going to face women and brainwashed children making a desperate last stand where it’s their ideals or yours. Hesitate and they’ll win. Disarm them but hope they’ll swallow the loss and change and they’ll fester until they have the opportunity to stage a comeback. Demand that everyone fight solely for your personal values and you fight alone. I despise tankies and libertarians almost as much as I do fascists, but if I gotta use their help to eradicate the fascists, I’ll take the help I can get and sort their value out later. And if they go down fighting, great, problem solved, hopefully they took out a good ratio before they were eliminated. It’s like watching Christians, Zionists, and jihadists fight- by all means, kill each other. But there’s no clean war, we all suffer the fallout. If you truly have a capacity for interpersonal violence and want go down that path, go for it. Anyone can talk big online anonymously, you know where the haters in your community live, work, and hang-out. Make ‘em suffer. But don’t delude yourself into thinking your actions are going to be ideal, that you’ll always get a ideal enemy, or that your allies are on the same spectrum. Dead Nazis are dead Nazis. Legit question: you and I agree on the idea of death as an option but have some ethical differences on when/where/how. If push comes to shove are you really going to fight me if we’ve got some captured Nazis in cuffs and I want to be done with them?
Depends on the circumstances. I’m fine with killing prisoners during a war, when battle is actively happening and could be here soon. But if we roll into town with a few tanks and they all put their hands up and there are no signs of any other danger, I say no killing. We gotta treat our POWs nicely.
Then you’re not “I think only active combatants should be killed” like you previously mentioned. You’re a step closer to “we’re gonna do some shit to make sure our vision of future humanity becomes the baseline”. You can recognize a Nazi when they reveal themselves. You’re a better person for trying to appeal to their humanity. At some point you just say “fuck you, c’mon and try”. And that effort is not a guarantee of success. A lot of us are going to lose if we do.
Yes, Israel is committing a genocide. I think Australia should declare war on Israel and bomb IDF bases until the genocide stops. We should demand that Israel recognise the Palestinian state and withdraw all trespasses onto Palestinian land. But once the war is over, I do not think Australia should execute zionist civilians. I also do not think zionist civilians in Australia should be executed by the government. Certainly, if they’re collaborating with the IDF, their work should be seized. The most egregious domestic offenders should be charged with community service.
Would you have the Australian government (which, by the way, is an illegal government just like Israel) execute zionist citizens for treason, commit to an invasion of Palestinian land, and execute all Israeli citizens who support the genocide? I wouldn’t. We have no death penalty in Australia for good reason. I would not support any politician who advocated for reinstating capital punishment, even if they intended to execute zionists.
Godric says they dodged the question because they recognised that you were using the alt-right playbook, and didn’t want to take your engagement bait. I think that’s a valid position. I’m a bit more of a skilled speechwriter, so I know how to maneuver past engagement bait and stay on topic while also addressing the question. But if Godric didn’t feel confident with outmaneuvering your engagement bait and wanted to just stay on topic, I respect that. I gotta say, I also noticed you using the alt-right playbook. You made a wild accusation against Me with no evidence and gish-galloped straight into interrogating Me. It’s a good thing I know how to deal with that sort of bad-faith rhetoric. I’m not gonna take your word that Godric is a zionist, just because they refused to engage with your bad-faith nonsense.
Thank you! This whole “kill all Zionists” debacle has been very interesting. It’s very much separated out of the Thunbergs from the Lenins in the community. I’m glad that people are starting to respect dbzer0 less, as dbzer0 slide rightward.
You know, a lot of Jewish people decided to respond to the genocide their grandparents suffered, by conducting a genocide of their own. And it seems that just like the Nazis, the Zionists are inspiring a new generation of murderous hate. History is a circle.
zionists always lie and pretend that anti-zionists are fascists. either you’re stupid and believe a zionist over an anti-zionist, or, far more likely, you yourself are a zionist liar. either way, go fuck yourself, collaborationist scum. one day, hopefully soon, we will have justice, and zionists will pay for their crimes. i suspect you will be among them.
But you didn’t show any convincing evidence they’re a zionist. You’re trying to reason Me from a premise to a conclusion, using the conclusion as evidence. That’s circular reasoning, you’re not convincing anybody.
refusing to acknowledge that israel is conducting a genocide is 100% obvious proof of zionism. if you reject that, as far as i’m concerned, you’re a fucking zionist too. get fucked, zionist cunt.
or maybe i’m just speaking the truth but you’re too brainwashed into reddit brain to acknowledge someone who is emotional about nazis who support a genocide because emotions are signs of crazy people
this website has lots of crypto-zionists who pretend they aren’t. it’s just like back in the 2010s when we were fighting the alt-right. back then, it was all “not everyone you disagree with was a fascist”. yes, they fucking were, and most people were too ignorant to see it.
ask godric if they acknowledge the genocide and find out for yourself, or by all means, discount my opinions because i’m too emotional, and implicitly support genocide denying nazis. your choice.
if you’re a zionist spreading hasbara, go fuck yourself and die.
there was a thread in a now deleted post (typical lemmy.world zionist admin team) where it became extremely obvious.
the thread itself is lost but you can probably search for it
you’ll also notice they don’t deny it
Pointing out how easilly Neonazis co-opted leftist rhetoric in a thread discussing how Neonazis are literally bragging about coopting leftist rhetoric is Zionism to you? Oh wow you got me, I’m right up there with the IDF: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FwFsvx1KfgA
Go outside kiddo 🤡
so do you recognize that israel is committing genocide in gaza?
ok zionist
Oh, are you one of those people who’s pro-death-penalty? No thanks, I’m a leftist. I think only active combatants should be killed.
Removed by mod
Could you put the gore behind a spoiler tag? Getting reports about it from people who’d rather not see that unintentionally.
No. Those are historical pictures of the price to be paid when you spend your life doing this
It’s ugly, it’s unsettling, it’s uncomfortable, it’s graphic. But if the subject is “lets comment and upvote how violent we want to be against the system”, while I wholeheartedly endorse that sentiment, that is what you need to be capable of because this is what they are doing with their power. Everyone needs to see what happens to the vulnerable when you use talk while the victimizers use action. Everyone needs to be reminded of what it actually looks like when you chose to fight back with action.
The internet is full of calls for violence from people who have never actually been in a situation where they inflict a life altering level of violence on another person, much less a life ending one. It’s not Hollywood and it’s not superheroes. Your enemies may have abandoned their humanity but they’re still human, and if/when you fight them, you will have to do things that are gory and unpleasant.
I don’t doubt that the victims of ICE are nearing the level of suffering we see in the death camp liberation photos. We see atrocities in Gaza on a daily basis. We know who’s behind it, we cheer the idea that their ability to do so will end, we keep psyching ourselves up to accept the reality and fight back. Great, but here’s what it looks like. Accept it or keep looking the other way while hoping someone else takes care of it and your hands are clean. They’re not, the blood of all the victims is as much on yours and mine for not accepting the terms of the brutalizers in this conflict and treating moral objection and righteous condemnation as the solution while they grind others into nothing.
I’m not saying that this part of history shouldn’t be discussed or seen. I’m saying that it’s reasonable to give people browsing Lemmy a warning before seeing dead bodies.
Y’all can continue your debate, but that first photo needs to be behind a spoiler tag before I can clear this report.
Do what you gotta do, and if that means sanitizing the misery of genocide and the consequences of fascism, on a forum the calls for death and destruction of fascism are a daily occurrence 🤷♂️
How many people are being abused and killed in ICE camps and Gaza everyday? How many more are virtue signaling on social media or a live stream while it goes on? Death and violence are easier to imagine abstractly because most people don’t encounter it every day. But it’s all around, it’s happening, they know it’s happening, they cheer for reprisal but can’t handle seeing the end result?
People are free to known but not want to see it, they’re free to look away, but fuck me, are we really at a point where the dead body of the guy who invented modern fascism is taboo? The people complaining are either fascists who don’t want to be reminded of what we do to their kind, or the left is utterly fucked because our ranks really are filled with snowflakes and bleeding-hearts who are never going to put up a fight.
Delete if you must but I’m not changing the post.
I’m not here to get in the middle of your conversation, I’m just responding to a report because we have a rule about showing porn, gore, or distressing images without a nsfw or spoiler tag. This includes your comment with the dead bodies.
I understand your motivation, but the rule exists to give people a chance to consent first.
So is this really where we’re at in society? I’ve got one leftist so ill educated on history they don’t know Mussolini was killed by antifascist partisans, so insistent on opposing the death penalty they’d pardon the architects of the Holocaust, and so invested in “America is always the worst” they reject Nuremberg (which they’re also seemingly unaware was a joint effort of the US/UK/France/Soviets). Now I’ve got liberal feel good values complaining about consent over historically significant photos of how fascism was ended last time it popped up. Meanwhile, there’s an ongoing genocide, concentration camps (and probably genocide), and multiple wars of conquest, all of them under the direction of leaders that are essentially fascist level dictators. But here we are, arguing amongst ourselves over whether the people behind WW2 deserved death and consenting to be reminded of what calls for violent resistance are going to look like. That’s why I posted them, to shock and unsettle people, with or without their consent. The victims of ICE, Russia, Zionists, and the US military aren’t consenting to what is being done to them as I type this and others read it. The world is a shocking and violent place and if the worst thing to happen to you today was a picture of a dead dictator made you feel violated, jfc. The victims of people like Mussolini are getting raped by dogs and disappeared into 3rd world prisons today. What the hell are people going to do when they witness ICE or whatever comes next violently assaulting and murdering people in the streets, inform them they didn’t consent to see that? They are literally shooting children for sport in Gaza and ICE are gunning down people on a whim. Why in the actual fuck are supposed leftists arguing feelings and vibes amongst each other while the people we claim to be standing with and supporting are being annihilated by a machine we do fuck all to stop?!?
I’m not gonna simp for the US government’s right to execute people. Miss Me with that authoritarian shit. I only support murder of fascists when it’s done by anarchist vigilantes. That’s because I trust Luigi Mangione types better than I trust Harry Truman types.
Mussolini was killed by Italian partisans, literally the anarchists, socialists, and communists who spent the war fighting the fascists. I honestly don’t care how they die. Want to put ‘em down, use every resource and avenue at your disposal. Truman didn’t kill Nazis, my grandfather did. How he got to Europe doesn’t much matter to me so long as they’re dead. John C. Woods is a hero because the US government tried to give them a clean death, he made them die slowly in agony. Luigi didn’t do it, he was at my house cross-country. Whoever did though… keep up the good fight.
I care who kills fascists because I don’t think the government should have the power to kill people. The government will become corrupt if you give it that power. Instead of empowering the state, we should be dismantling it.
You want the morality of in the moment life or death decisions being morally justifiable and clean cut good guy/bad guy. That’s not how death dealing works. Start the slaughter and the innocent are going to get caught in the crossfire. It’s not just middle aged white men you’re going to face, you’re going to face women and brainwashed children making a desperate last stand where it’s their ideals or yours. Hesitate and they’ll win. Disarm them but hope they’ll swallow the loss and change and they’ll fester until they have the opportunity to stage a comeback. Demand that everyone fight solely for your personal values and you fight alone. I despise tankies and libertarians almost as much as I do fascists, but if I gotta use their help to eradicate the fascists, I’ll take the help I can get and sort their value out later. And if they go down fighting, great, problem solved, hopefully they took out a good ratio before they were eliminated. It’s like watching Christians, Zionists, and jihadists fight- by all means, kill each other. But there’s no clean war, we all suffer the fallout. If you truly have a capacity for interpersonal violence and want go down that path, go for it. Anyone can talk big online anonymously, you know where the haters in your community live, work, and hang-out. Make ‘em suffer. But don’t delude yourself into thinking your actions are going to be ideal, that you’ll always get a ideal enemy, or that your allies are on the same spectrum. Dead Nazis are dead Nazis. Legit question: you and I agree on the idea of death as an option but have some ethical differences on when/where/how. If push comes to shove are you really going to fight me if we’ve got some captured Nazis in cuffs and I want to be done with them?
Depends on the circumstances. I’m fine with killing prisoners during a war, when battle is actively happening and could be here soon. But if we roll into town with a few tanks and they all put their hands up and there are no signs of any other danger, I say no killing. We gotta treat our POWs nicely.
Then you’re not “I think only active combatants should be killed” like you previously mentioned. You’re a step closer to “we’re gonna do some shit to make sure our vision of future humanity becomes the baseline”. You can recognize a Nazi when they reveal themselves. You’re a better person for trying to appeal to their humanity. At some point you just say “fuck you, c’mon and try”. And that effort is not a guarantee of success. A lot of us are going to lose if we do.
grail you are notorious for being a liar lmfao
do you recognize israel is committing genocide in gaza?
Yes, Israel is committing a genocide. I think Australia should declare war on Israel and bomb IDF bases until the genocide stops. We should demand that Israel recognise the Palestinian state and withdraw all trespasses onto Palestinian land. But once the war is over, I do not think Australia should execute zionist civilians. I also do not think zionist civilians in Australia should be executed by the government. Certainly, if they’re collaborating with the IDF, their work should be seized. The most egregious domestic offenders should be charged with community service.
Would you have the Australian government (which, by the way, is an illegal government just like Israel) execute zionist citizens for treason, commit to an invasion of Palestinian land, and execute all Israeli citizens who support the genocide? I wouldn’t. We have no death penalty in Australia for good reason. I would not support any politician who advocated for reinstating capital punishment, even if they intended to execute zionists.
Removed by mod
Godric says they dodged the question because they recognised that you were using the alt-right playbook, and didn’t want to take your engagement bait. I think that’s a valid position. I’m a bit more of a skilled speechwriter, so I know how to maneuver past engagement bait and stay on topic while also addressing the question. But if Godric didn’t feel confident with outmaneuvering your engagement bait and wanted to just stay on topic, I respect that. I gotta say, I also noticed you using the alt-right playbook. You made a wild accusation against Me with no evidence and gish-galloped straight into interrogating Me. It’s a good thing I know how to deal with that sort of bad-faith rhetoric. I’m not gonna take your word that Godric is a zionist, just because they refused to engage with your bad-faith nonsense.
I couldn’t have said it better myself! I wish you the best day!
Thank you! This whole “kill all Zionists” debacle has been very interesting. It’s very much separated out of the Thunbergs from the Lenins in the community. I’m glad that people are starting to respect dbzer0 less, as dbzer0 slide rightward.
You know, a lot of Jewish people decided to respond to the genocide their grandparents suffered, by conducting a genocide of their own. And it seems that just like the Nazis, the Zionists are inspiring a new generation of murderous hate. History is a circle.
zionists always lie and pretend that anti-zionists are fascists. either you’re stupid and believe a zionist over an anti-zionist, or, far more likely, you yourself are a zionist liar. either way, go fuck yourself, collaborationist scum. one day, hopefully soon, we will have justice, and zionists will pay for their crimes. i suspect you will be among them.
But you didn’t show any convincing evidence they’re a zionist. You’re trying to reason Me from a premise to a conclusion, using the conclusion as evidence. That’s circular reasoning, you’re not convincing anybody.
refusing to acknowledge that israel is conducting a genocide is 100% obvious proof of zionism. if you reject that, as far as i’m concerned, you’re a fucking zionist too. get fucked, zionist cunt.
You sound like an Israeli psyop trying to phrase reasonable opinions in such a ridiculous manner as to drive people into supporting Israel.
Even your choice of instance is too on the nose. You might as well be explicitly saying “look how crazy you have to be to support Palestine.”
or maybe i’m just speaking the truth but you’re too brainwashed into reddit brain to acknowledge someone who is emotional about nazis who support a genocide because emotions are signs of crazy people
this website has lots of crypto-zionists who pretend they aren’t. it’s just like back in the 2010s when we were fighting the alt-right. back then, it was all “not everyone you disagree with was a fascist”. yes, they fucking were, and most people were too ignorant to see it.
ask godric if they acknowledge the genocide and find out for yourself, or by all means, discount my opinions because i’m too emotional, and implicitly support genocide denying nazis. your choice.
if you’re a zionist spreading hasbara, go fuck yourself and die.
The crazy person shouting on the corner with no shirt and covered in ketchup might be right. But they sure aren’t helping their cause.